MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[hoptoad]

snip...
Once again-please read the Physics behind resonance,and the 3 things required to achieve resonance.
You are confused between acoustic oscillation and resonance.
http://www.intuitor.com/resonance/abcRes.html
Brad

ABC may be too hard for some to understand or perhaps clicking on the link and reading is too hard.?
Saving the trouble: Extract from http://www.intuitor.com/resonance/abcRes.html

" Resonance requires 3 basic conditions:
A) An Object With a Natural Frequency: The object can be a mechanical device or an electronic circuit. An object's natural frequency is the frequency it tends to oscillate at when disturbed. The oscillation can be a mechanical vibration as is the case when the string of a guitar is strummed. In an electronic circuit the oscillation is a variable voltage or current. An object can have more than one natural frequency. These are called harmonics. A guitar string sounds musical because it vibrates with several harmonics when it is strummed.

B) A Forcing Function at the Same Frequency as the Natural Frequency: In mechanical systems the forcing function is a variable force. In electronic circuits it arises from a variable electric field. In either case the forcing function does work on the object it is applied to. Since work is a form of energy transfer it causes energy to build up in the object.

C) A Lack of Damping or Energy Loss: For an object to resonate, mechanical or electrical energy has to build up in the object. Anything which removes these forms of energy tends to interfere with resonance. Damping is a means of  removing electrical or mechanical energy by converting it to heat. The term damping should not be confused with the term dampening which means to make something slightly wet. Friction, air resistance, and viscous drag can all provide damping in mechanical systems. Electrical resistance performs the same function in electronic circuits. Other forms of energy loss can include sound (musical instruments) or light emissions (lasers).
When the forcing function's frequency  matches the natural frequency of an object it will begin to resonate. The forcing function adds energy at just the right moment during the oscillation cycle so that the oscillation is reinforced. This makes the oscillation's amplitude grow larger and larger. These oscillations would eventually become infinitely large. However, as mentioned earlier, long before the oscillations reach infinity one of three things happens: 1) the object's dynamics change so that the resonant frequency and forcing functions no longer match, 2) the energy lost as heat, sound, or light becomes equal to the energy input. or 3) the object breaks "

[tinman]

MileHigh

At this point I am just correcting or clarifying things for you for the sake of doing it.  I don't know if things are going to stick because we seem to have a serious Teflon problem with you and I don't really care at this point.

"Ideal torque" and "ideal torque source" mean exactly the same thing and you should realize this and it's (almost) shocking that you don't.

For the hundredth bloody time, we are talking about black-box abstractions and there is no such thing as a literal "energy store" or "energy source" for any of them.

Who is !we!,as it is only you that has a problem with this torque issue.
The question you asked was-define an ideal torque--nothing about the ideal torques source. Of course it has a bloody source MH,,just like your ideal voltage has a source.
So stop your nonsence,as your just dribbling on about something that is not an issue.

Your answer is dead wrong because you had to say two things, 1) "constant torque," and 2) "any angular velocity" and you failed to do that.  At this point you may as well go bark at the moon if you want to insist that you are right.

My answer was correct MH,and more accurate than yours.
If the angular velocity is 0 MH,then there is no angular velocity.--> there dose not have to be any angular velocity for a torque to be applied to something. Your statement is idiotic,and you know it. Once again,you are doing the !big dribble! to try and save face--but that dose not work for you any more MH.
Once again--angular velocity dose not have to be included to describe an ideal torque,as a torque can exist where there is no angular velocity.
If we place 0 volts across your ideal coil MH--is there a voltage across your coil?
Thats how stupid your comments are becoming.

You are in "head banging against the wall" territory now Teflon Brad.  THINK:  Any angular velocity can mean zero angular velocity which means no rotation which means STOPPED and no motion.  Now, do you understand that?

You have finally gone completely nut's MH,and that is what i understand.
If something is motionless(stopped),then there is no angular velocity MH,but a torque can still exist.

You have been given multiple references that state that resonance does not need action from an outside source and you are intentionally ignoring them.

What,from one or two sources that must have taken you hours to dig up?.
I have provided 10x's that,and all i have provided are correct. Your own little language dose not dismiss the true scientific meaning of resonance or resonating MH--like it or not.

I asked you to supply just one video,where an experimenter says that a coil is resonating when it is ringing down--just one,and you failed to do so.

Beyond that, forget about all of the references and think for yourself and arrive at your own conclusion based on the facts and your own intellect.

You can arrive at the correct conclusion all by yourself.

I have MH,and i do know when an object is resonating,and when it is just oscillating/vibrating at it's natural frequency.
To resonate,the amplitude must maintain a maximum value.not ring down to nothing.

I have provided page after page,and video after video,showing you the difference between a resonating object,and what is needed to gain resonance,and an object vibrating at it's natural frequency.
Everything on earth vibrates MH--are you saying everything is resonating?


Brad

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Of course it has a bloody source MH,,just like your ideal voltage has a source.

There is no "source" of anything Brad.  It's just like watching Batman on TV.  There is no Bat Cave, and there is no Batman, it's all imaginary.

Once again--angular velocity dose not have to be included to describe an ideal torque,as a torque can exist where there is no angular velocity.

You have comprehension problems.

If something is motionless(stopped),then there is no angular velocity MH,but a torque can still exist.

No kidding.

I have provided 10x's that,and all i have provided are correct. Your own little language dose not dismiss the true scientific meaning of resonance or resonating MH--like it or not.

Walk into any high school physics class where they are playing with tuning forks and say that when you strike a tuning fork that it is not resonating and the whole class and the teacher will burst out laughing.

I asked you to supply just one video,where an experimenter says that a coil is resonating when it is ringing down--just one,and you failed to do so.

In fact I did supply a video just the other day.

You can be stuck on this resonance/natural frequency problem as long as you want.  It just shows how you have serious problems and how insanely difficult it is to get through to you.

MileHigh

[tinman]

Brad:

There is no "source" of anything Brad.  It's just like watching Batman on TV.  There is no Bat Cave, and there is no Batman, it's all imaginary.

You have comprehension problems.

No kidding.

Walk into any high school physics class where they are playing with tuning forks and say that when you strike a tuning fork that it is not resonating and the whole class and the teacher will burst out laughing.

In fact I did supply a video just the other day.

You can be stuck on this resonance/natural frequency problem as long as you want.  It just shows how you have serious problems and how insanely difficult it is to get through to you.

MileHigh

MH--seek help.
You have gone off the rail's.
Everything has a source MH,and if you do not know the difference between something that is ringing down and resonating,then you will go no further than you are today--which is just junk talk on a forum. An ideal torque can and dose exist in many applications. An ideal talk dose not have to be applied to something that has angular momentum,and so,once again,your definition of an ideal torque was limited,where as my definition covered all situations an ideal torque could be applied to.

I only hope that people here,that want to learn fact from fiction,do not listen to what you have to say. The fact that you cannot put all your !claimed! knowledge into a practical build,and take me on in a small JT build off,just go's to show how little you actually know when it comes to putting your self acclaimed brilliance into action-->i think they call that !being full of hot air!.

Those that have read this thread,and the JT thread,will be starting to get a very good idea as to who you are,and how you work--a man who calls some one very limited in knowledge,but dare not take on that man he accuses of having limited knowledge-->we all know why that is MH


You enjoy your self now MH--i have better things to do with my time.

P.S
Just so you know your attempt at using resound as some sort of proof the wine glass or bell is resonating--here is the definitions of the two

Resonate means "to expand, to intensity, or amplify the sound of,"

Resound means "to throw back, repeat the sound of."

You will see the two have very different meanings.
The bell and the wine glass will not intensify or amplify the sound once they have been struck. They both will decrease in intensity and amplitude once they have been struck,and begin to ring.


Brad

[MileHigh]

Brad:

Whether it be an ideal voltage source or an ideal velocity source, these things are just ideas.  You seem to be suggesting that there is a "source" that forms part of one of these abstract concepts.  There is no point in imagining anything beyond the fact that they simply exist as ideas.  Imagining that there is some kind of energy store or energy source that is "feeding" an ideal voltage source is simply ridiculous.  They are all just imaginary black boxes.

For the resonance business, there are simply two definitions.  There is energy going back and forth resonance, call that "true resonance" if you want.  Then there is the resonance that you always talk about.

Now why can't you simply accept that there are two legitimate definitions to the term and they are quite closely related to each other?  Both definitions can exist alongside each other.  Now why, why is it so hard for you to accept this?  Why to you have to refuse the fact that you can say a struck tuning fork is resonating?  What is stopping you from accepting that there are two definitions?

Seriously, if you can't simply accept that there are two related definitions for the word "resonance" then you are beyond being off the rails.

There have been countless black comedy and near-insane moments with you on both threads Brad.  I am confident that the majority of the readers will recognize who is serious and they will listen to the person that they think is bringing the most sense and value to the table.

MileHigh