MH's ideal coil and voltage question

[MileHigh]

You are ridiculous.  I never tried to present myself as an authority on engines.  With respect to resonance, you can ring bells until you are blue in the face, I don't give a damn.  Just stop and calm down.

[ramset]

have a good night..
same time tomorrow ??

Yeesh...........

[tinman]

And I think we are in super knickers twist territory here.

I would never have laughed at you if you stated that the CEMF would be equal and opposite the EMF because I agree with that.  So I don't know where that is coming from but I can venture a guess.

For starters, I am assuming that we are back to discussing a coil and not a motor.  When you state that the CEMF would be equal to the EMF you believe that no current would flow because the CEMF cancels out the EMF.  You believe that for current to flow in a coil the CEMF must be less than the EMF.

Well, that's where you are wrong.  When you apply EMF to a coil, the coil's CEMF is equal to the EMF and current flows through the coil.  Right now in your head that doesn't make sense but that is really the way it is.

This idea you have in your head about the requirement for a voltage difference is wrong.  And you are over confident with your little comments like "MH is just lost again" and "I think MH is having a bad day" and "aint that a hoot."

Unfortunately the joke is on you.  I don't really know if I am prepared to argue it out with you.  I am willing to try to close the loop with Poynt on this issue from an earlier posting but as far as I am concerned you are on your own.  Believe what you want to believe or figure it out with someone else.

Well i am in agreeance with poynt,so if he is wrong,then so am i.
I might point out that poynt has been doing this far longer than me,and he is fare more verst in EE than i by a huge margin.
So what you say about me,must also apply to those that are in agreeance with-yes?.
So yes,you sort it out with poynt,as it is getting increasingly  difficult to learn ,when there is two well versed EE guys disagreeing on something that is suppose to be simple.


Brad

[tinman]

And I think we are in super knickers twist territory here.

I would never have laughed at you if you stated that the CEMF would be equal and opposite the EMF because I agree with that.  So I don't know where that is coming from but I can venture a guess.

For starters, I am assuming that we are back to discussing a coil and not a motor.  When you state that the CEMF would be equal to the EMF you believe that no current would flow because the CEMF cancels out the EMF.  You believe that for current to flow in a coil the CEMF must be less than the EMF.

Well, that's where you are wrong.  When you apply EMF to a coil, the coil's CEMF is equal to the EMF and current flows through the coil.  Right now in your head that doesn't make sense but that is really the way it is.

This idea you have in your head about the requirement for a voltage difference is wrong.  And you are over confident with your little comments like "MH is just lost again" and "I think MH is having a bad day" and "aint that a hoot."

Unfortunately the joke is on you.  I don't really know if I am prepared to argue it out with you.  I am willing to try to close the loop with Poynt on this issue from an earlier posting but as far as I am concerned you are on your own.  Believe what you want to believe or figure it out with someone else.

To make it clear as to what i believe MH, the CEMF will create a current flow that apposes that which created it-it is in opposition to that of the induced current from the applied EMF.
This means that the CEMF is opposite to,but not equal to the applied EMF. --WE ARE TALKING NON IDEAL INDUCTORS HERE-not ideal. When myself and mags stated that the CEMF and  EMF would be equal and opposite,we were talking about your ideal coil,where the flux linking/cutting would also be ideal-no losses as we have in real world inductors.

[MileHigh]

Loner:

When it comes to electronics, you are not as smart as you think.  Beyond that, don't you dare allege that I am a troll.  I am making logical points and I am sincerely trying to debate with people, even if the debate can get heated.  It takes two to tango.  I am not buying your "wise man coming to share some pearls of wisdom" vibe, at all.  If you have some issues with me, then say them straight to my face and we will debate them.  Fair enough?

Current Flow IS determined by voltage, right?  IF the Applied voltage WERE EXACTLY equal to the "CEMF" there would be NO CURRENT.  Second, IF there were NO Current, there would be NO CEMF!!!

Come on people, a little common sense and logic is required to understand ANY of this, in a realistic OR ideal fashion.  Just as, an IDEAL inductor will still have Impedance, which is really what this entire discussion was about, to begin with.

Sure, let's get real and use a little common sense and start off with a resistor.

You have a one-volt voltage source connected across a one-ohm resistor, which gives you one amp of DC current.

So where is the EMF and the CEMF?  The one-volt voltage source is the EMF.  The CEMF is the one amp flowing through the one-ohm resistor causing a one-volt voltage drop across the resistor.

The one-volt voltage drop across the resistor is the CEMF.   Look at that, the EMF and the CEMF are equal and opposite, and current flows through the resistor.

Now let's repeat the whole process for an inductor:

You have a one-volt voltage source connected across a one-Henry inductor, which gives you one amp of current per second flowing through the inductor.

So where is the EMF and the CEMF?  The one-volt voltage source is the EMF.  The CEMF is the one amp of current per second flowing through the inductor causing a one-volt voltage drop across the inductor.

The one-volt voltage drop across the inductor is the CEMF.   Look at that, the EMF and the CEMF are equal and opposite, and current flows through the inductor.

That's the real deal and that's the way it is modeled.

SO, the simple thing is, there IS a slight difference between the EMF and the CEMF or NO current would flow, which would prevent the CEMF from being generated in the first place.  Simple enough?

So, you are wrong.  There is no difference between the EMF and the CEMF and current flows for both the resistor and the inductor.  Simple enough.

If you have a technical comment to the above discussion I am all ears.   And again, if you want to say something to me then just say it.

MileHigh