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Overunity Machines Forum



170 watts in - 1600 watts out - looped - Very impressive build and video

Started by e2matrix, February 17, 2018, 01:03:05 PM

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0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

cheors

Recherche de la fréquence de commutation :

Nous savons maintenant qu'il y a 24 délais dans le programme Arduino dont la durée dépend du potentiomètre. Celui-ci est mesuré sur l'entrée A0 : «int y= analogRead(0); «
Il peut prendre la valeur de 0 à 1023 mais est réduit de 0 à 10 par l'instruction «x= map(y,0,1000 ,1,10);» . (10 maximum dans la vidéo de Pierre et 100 dans ce que Luc a publié)
Donc  chaque délai ne peut prendre que des valeurs entières de : 0, 1, 2, 3,,,,
La boucle du programme fait soit 24  x 1 ms = 24 mS, 24 x 2 = 48 mS, 72 mS, ...
On rajoute environ 0,65 mS pour les autres instructions («digitalWrite»)
La rotation durera :
x   Rotation   Fréquence   Relai       Fréquence de sortie
         (F)      (2 pas)            (3 poles N S = 3 F)
1   24,65 mS  soit 40,56 Hz   2 ms      121,70 Hz
2   48,65      20,55      4      61,66
3   72,65      13,76      6      41,29
4   96,65      10,34      8      31,03
5   120,65      8,28      10      24,86
6   144,65      6,94      12      20,73
7   168,65      5,92      14      17,78
8   192,65      5,19      16      15,57
9   216,65      4,61      18      13,84
10   240,65      4,15      20      12,46

x = 1mS semble trop court pour les relais même s'ils sont activés pendant 2 pas.
2mS est plus intéressant car on a 48mS pour la boucle : comme on a 3 pôles N et 3 S, c'est comme si le programme bouclait en 48,65/3 = 16,21 mS. Ce qui donne du 61Hz vu de la bobine de sortie.

Mais il est vrai que la cadence semble être plus lente vers 5 Hz soit 15,57 vu de la sortie avec x =8 .

Remarque :
- On n'a pas besoin du potentiomètre si l'objectif est une fréquence fixe unique.
Il suffit de déclarer la variable en lui donnant sa valeur directement. Par exemple «int x = 2;»
(cela devient une constante)
Pour avoir un 60Hz précis, on peut remplacer les instructions «delay» par«delayMicroseconds» et ajuster expérimentalement la constante autour de 2000 : «const int x = 2000;»
On supprime les instructions y = analogRead(0);  et   x = map(y,0,1000,1,10); ce qui rend la boucle plus rapide et plus régulière. (environ 160 uS gagnés)

- Pour un stator à 30 fentes, 30 bobines le programme ne comportera que 20 délais.
Dans l'exemple ou x vaut 2, le programme bouclera en 20 x 2 = 40mS et divisés par 3 = 75Hz.
Pour avoir du 60Hz, x vaudra plutôt: «const int x = 2400;»

- Je pense que nous n'avons pas le programme exact :
*L'instruction map de Luc est différente de celle diffusée par Pierre sur Youtube.
* On ne voit jamais toutes les LEDS éteintes contrairement à ce que l'on attend avec la version Youtube.

Dans ma simulation j'ai corrigé de la façon suivante :

void loop()
{
y = analogRead(0); // transforme x en une valeur de 0 à 10 (millisecondes)
x = map(y,0,1000,1,10);
  digitalWrite(2,HIGH), digitalWrite(14,HIGH), digitalWrite(26,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(1,LOW),  digitalWrite(13,LOW),  digitalWrite(25,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(3,HIGH), digitalWrite(15,HIGH), digitalWrite(27,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(2,LOW),  digitalWrite(14,LOW),  digitalWrite(26,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(4,HIGH), digitalWrite(16,HIGH), digitalWrite(28,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(3,LOW),  digitalWrite(15,LOW),  digitalWrite(27,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(5,HIGH), digitalWrite(17,HIGH), digitalWrite(29,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(4,LOW),  digitalWrite(16,LOW),  digitalWrite(28,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(6,HIGH), digitalWrite(18,HIGH), digitalWrite(30,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(5,LOW),  digitalWrite(17,LOW),  digitalWrite(29,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(7,HIGH), digitalWrite(19,HIGH), digitalWrite(31,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(6,LOW),  digitalWrite(18,LOW),  digitalWrite(30,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(8,HIGH), digitalWrite(20,HIGH), digitalWrite(32,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(7,LOW),  digitalWrite(19,LOW),  digitalWrite(31,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(9,HIGH), digitalWrite(21,HIGH), digitalWrite(33,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(8,LOW),  digitalWrite(20,LOW),  digitalWrite(32,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(10,HIGH), digitalWrite(22,HIGH), digitalWrite(34,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(9,LOW),  digitalWrite(21,LOW),  digitalWrite(33,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(11,HIGH), digitalWrite(23,HIGH), digitalWrite(35,HIGH);   // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(10,LOW),  digitalWrite(22,LOW),  digitalWrite(34,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(12,HIGH), digitalWrite(24,HIGH), digitalWrite(36,HIGH); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(11,LOW),  digitalWrite(23,LOW),  digitalWrite(35,LOW);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(1,HIGH),  digitalWrite(13,HIGH),  digitalWrite(25,HIGH);     // turn the LED off by making the voltage LOW
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
  digitalWrite(12,LOW), digitalWrite(24,LOW), digitalWrite(36,LOW); // turn the LED on (HIGH is the voltage level)
  delay(x);              // wait for a second
}

cheors

English

Search of the switching frequency:

We now know that there are 24 delays in the Arduino program whose duration depends on the potentiometer. This is measured on the input A0: "int y = analogRead (0); "
It can take the value from 0 to 1023 but is reduced from 0 to 10 by the statement "x = map (y, 0,1000, 1,10);". (10 maximum in Peter's video and 100 in what Luke has published)
So each delay can only take integer values of: 0, 1, 2, 3 ,,,,
The loop of the program is either 24 x 1 ms = 24 mS, 24 x 2 = 48 mS, 72 mS, ...
We add about 0.65 mS for other instructions ("digitalWrite")
The rotation will last:
x Rotation Frequency Relay Output Frequency(F) (2 steps) (3 poles N S = 3 F)
1   24,65 mS  soit 40,56 Hz   2 ms      121,70 Hz
2   48,65      20,55      4      61,66
3   72,65      13,76      6      41,29
4   96,65      10,34      8      31,03
5   120,65      8,28     10      24,86
6   144,65      6,94     12      20,73
7   168,65      5,92     14      17,78
8   192,65      5,19     16      15,57
9   216,65      4,61     18      13,84
10   240,65      4,15    20      12,46

x = 1mS seems too short for relays even if they are activated for 2 steps.
2mS is more interesting because we have 48mS for the loop: as we have 3 poles N and 3 S, it is as if the program looped in 48.65 / 3 = 16.21 mS. Which gives the 61Hz seen from the output coil.

But it is true that the reality seems to be slower towards 5 Hz is 15.57 seen from the output with
x = 8.
Notes:
- The potentiometer is not needed if the we need a single fixed frequency.
Simply declare the variable by giving it its value directly. For example, "const int x = 2;"
(it becomes a constant)
To have a precise 60Hz, we can replace the "delay" instructions with "delayMicroseconds" and experimentally adjust the constant around 2000: "const int x = 2000;"
We can delete the statements y = analogRead (0); and x = map (y, 0,1000,1,10); which makes the loop faster and more regular. (about 160 uS won)

- For a stator with 30 slots, 30 coils the program will only have 20 delays.
In the example where x = 2, the program will loop in 20 x 2 = 40mS which gives 75Hz.
To have 60Hz, x will be worth: "const int x = 2400;"

- I think we do not have the exact program:
* The instruction map of Luc is different from the one that is broadcast by Pierre on Youtube.
* We never see all the LEDs off contrary to what is expected with the Youtube version.

In my simulation I corrected as follows:  (see previous post)

ARTMOSART

pour tout qui s'intéresse à la fréquence de rotation du champ magnétique ,je suggère de revoir
la video parite 1,à 6 min ,quand pierre introduit le rotore à 2 aimants ,
on voie très bien que :
1/ la vitesse est très faible
2/ la rotation du champ n'est pas linéaire
3/ le pas n'est pas régulier (probablement les pole ne sont pas égaux ?)

cela me fait dire que les 60Hz c'est pas possible ,plutôt dans les 5hz?
qu'en pensez-vous

cordialement ,Mosha

EN/for anyone interested in the frequency of rotation of the magnetic field, I suggest to revisit video parite 1, at 6 min, when Pierre introduces the rotor with 2 magnets, we see very well that:
1 / speed is very low
2 / the rotation of the field is not linear
3 / the step is not regular (probably the pole is not equal?)
that makes me say that the 60Hz is not possible, rather in 5hz? What do you think

best regards, Mosha

seaad

Quote from: ARTMOSART on March 29, 2018, 09:10:39 AM
cela me fait dire que les 60Hz c'est pas possible ,plutôt dans les 5hz?
qu'en pensez-vous
EN/
(probably the pole is not equal?) that makes me say that the 60Hz is not possible, rather in 5hz? What do you think best regards, Mosha[/left]

Now Mosha, it's time to pick up your motor idea  and start testing new ideas. FR/ Maintenant, Mosha, il est temps de prendre votre idée de moteur et de commencer à tester de nouvelles idées.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOvtCt1MkhY

Arne

ARTMOSART

arne,

merci pour le lien ,je découvre que mon idée  a déjà  exister et tant mieux .malheureusement je ne comprend  pas l'Allemand .

en fait je suis déjà entrain de faire cette expérience depuis quelque jours ,avec un commutateur mécanique dans un premier temps .

cependant je continue surtout à essayer de comprendre le système car il y'a beaucoup d'incohérence concernant la fréquence .est ce vraiment un champ rotative ? ne peut-il pas s'agir d'un champ vibratoire ? 

cordialement,Mosha

EN:

arne,

thank you for the link, I discover that my idea has already exist and so much. unfortunately I do not understand German.

in fact I am already doing this experiment for a few days, with a mechanical switch at first.

however, I still mostly try to understand the system because there is a lot of inconsistency about the frequency. Is it really a rotating field? can not it be a vibratory field?