Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated

[d3x0r]

I stripped the relays off 1 board, opened them, cleaned and adjusted the contacts now all are 10 m ohms or less. They all have to be this way to achieve the max current.
If the 60Hz were generated purely by what we can see...  10 sequences x 10ms =100ms per rotation.

That's 10 rotations per second, 6 polarity reversals in each rotation, so 10 x 6= 60Hz.
The max time to switch is 10ms, so in practice you would be lucky to get 5ms on time.
I would conclude that only 30Hz would be achievable.
L192

Again; in the video he shows 60.5Hz; the video is at 30FPS, and in every frame there are 2 LEDS on on the transistors.  The relay states are changing a total of 60 times per second (between every 2 on there's a 1 off and a 2 on, so 2*30 = 60 ).   
no relay changes faster than 48ms though.  (from on (0); turn off prior (1); turn on next (2), turn off original (3) ; 3 * 16.66ms (1000/60) )


but there certainly aren't 60 full rotations of the field (or 30)... it takes a third of a second second to get through a cycle of 12 steps; which is only at best 6 pole per quarter second... (if 3 pairs; one across top of rotor, one across bottom in 12 steps ) so by rotations like 6Hz is all it would be...

[FixedSys]

Like in http://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/msg521432/#msg521432 ?
At least that one is in the line to test on my bench.

Yes. But would there be any gains from swapping the armature and field coil lines, i.e. field center with two armatures running either side? I'm wondering if the flux is being underutilized as is with one end of the electromagnet outwardly facing? Would my proposed arrangement make it a two phase system?

[FixedSys]

I'm exhausted for the night, need rest....but you are thinking.  But again...there is more MUCH more...watch the videos in very slow motion..  Spend time learning generator basics.  For example, what types of generators are there?  There are many, but which one fits his device.  What is the piston to his generator?  What is it in your device that is not giving you this piston?  Think simple....don't over complicate.  Its human to over complicate.   Then ask gain, why is he using roughly 25 volts., I won't say how...I think many see this but don't want to say.


Jerdee.

What does DZ represent? Direct Z? Dimension Z (Z axis)? Does anyone know?

What type of generator does the DZ represent?
I believe the only obvious reason the case is used for the field is to have more coils = better resolution = the most accurate reproduction of field rotation. Conversely, a 36 slot field rotor of similar size to achieve the same resolution would likely be impossible to get. However, if you could get such a rotor, then the case could instead contain the armature, and so you'd have a "digital" type reproduction of a standard "analog" A/C cylindrical rotor generator.
As far as I can tell, the DZ appears to have about as much in common with an induction motor as it does generator. It's like a stalled induction motor where the torque is unused but the induced current is used.

I'm probably focusing too much on the mechanical aspects, so can it be considered a transformer, rather than a generator? Then what gains are to be had from a rotating field vs a sinusoidal alternating field?

If by type you mean electrical aspects, it is compound wound, etc, then I need to study the videos...

[T-1000]

Yes. But would there be any gains from swapping the armature and field coil lines, i.e. field center with two armatures running either side? I'm wondering if the flux is being underutilized as is with one end of the electromagnet outwardly facing? Would my proposed arrangement make it a two phase system?

The open magnetic system behavior is a bit different. Even in Pierre's case it is still half-open system due range between coils opposite magnetic polarities facing outward in stator frame.


Cheers!

[listener192]

What does DZ represent? Direct Z? Dimension Z (Z axis)? Does anyone know?

What type of generator does the DZ represent?
I believe the only obvious reason the case is used for the field is to have more coils = better resolution = the most accurate reproduction of field rotation. Conversely, a 36 slot field rotor of similar size to achieve the same resolution would likely be impossible to get. However, if you could get such a rotor, then the case could instead contain the armature, and so you'd have a "digital" type reproduction of a standard "analog" A/C cylindrical rotor generator.
As far as I can tell, the DZ appears to have about as much in common with an induction motor as it does generator. It's like a stalled induction motor where the torque is unused but the induced current is used.

I'm probably focusing too much on the mechanical aspects, so can it be considered a transformer, rather than a generator? Then what gains are to be had from a rotating field vs a sinusoidal alternating field?

If by type you mean electrical aspects, it is compound wound, etc, then I need to study the videos...

This applet shows the situation in a three phase induction motor.
http://www.nptel.ac.in/courses/IIT-MADRAS/Electrical_Machines_II/animation/sinwave3-9.htm
Its the traveling wave that drags the rotor around. If this were a 3 phase transformer i.e. a second set of windings, you would have induction due to the traveling wave and induction due to the pulsating wave (the three phase AC).
In the DZ there is a traveling wave but no pulsating component (unless you pulse each coil set  off and on).

L192