Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated

[d3x0r]

Whaaat!?  Wait a minute, let's reason together.  We have a black box that we connect to a fixed power supply.  The box has three ports that is, an input, output, and common.  The input and output both connect to the positive terminal of said power supply and the negative lead of the supply connects to the common terminal.  We now attach a watt meter to the input and measure 1 watt of power drawn from the supply.  We also attach a watt meter to the output and we measure 9 watts returned to the same supply.  Our black box is somehow giving us an 800% gain not 90% recovery.

Regards,
Pm

the measure isn't on the common.  It's not 800% gain.  It's 9W from one side + 1W on the other side, one can know that 10W is used on the input common.


The recover is going to the caps, the power supply is going to the caps, if the power supply doesn't have to apply that much power (1W) because most of what was used was returned by recovery....


very similar to the way a resonant circuit is; in a tank you can have KW of power for a few watts of input...


At initial power on in the 90% recovery case... the power supplied would have to be 100% (10W), after the first cycle of recovery, 9W returns from the coils, which leaves 1W required from the power supply.


There's no gain... it's still no more than the required 10W total.


@gotoluc just makin sure... I did hope you knew... but that's not exactly the words you were sayin; sorry to seem like a grammar nazi

[gotoluc]

@gotoluc just makin sure... I did hope you knew... but that's not exactly the words you were sayin; sorry to seem like a grammar nazi

No problem

So I decided to add a switch on the combined 30 diode output lead I use for the clamp amp probe to show the difference when we switch off the return but now I'm confused because I thought the input power would go up when I switch off the diode collection but it only has a small increase. Not sure what's up with that?

Have a look:  https://youtu.be/9ELVELKx4LU

[listener192]

No problem

So I decided to add a switch on the combined 30 diode output lead I use for the clamp amp probe to show the difference when we switch off the return but now I'm confused because I thought the input power would go up when I switch off the diode collection but it only has a small increase. Not sure what's up with that?

Have a look:  https://youtu.be/9ELVELKx4LU

Hi Gotoluc,


How can you turn off recovery the upper and lower switch diodes are the MOSFET body diodes you can't turn them off, all you can do is look at the bridge board supply with the current clamp to see the current pulses returned to the caps when the MOSFETs turn off.


Regards


L192

[partzman]

the measure isn't on the common.  It's not 800% gain.  It's 9W from one side + 1W on the other side, one can know that 10W is used on the input common.


The recover is going to the caps, the power supply is going to the caps, if the power supply doesn't have to apply that much power (1W) because most of what was used was returned by recovery....


very similar to the way a resonant circuit is; in a tank you can have KW of power for a few watts of input...


At initial power on in the 90% recovery case... the power supplied would have to be 100% (10W), after the first cycle of recovery, 9W returns from the coils, which leaves 1W required from the power supply.


There's no gain... it's still no more than the required 10W total.


@gotoluc just makin sure... I did hope you knew... but that's not exactly the words you were sayin; sorry to seem like a grammar nazi

Who said anything about measuring the common?  How do you account for 10W total input?  Refer to the attached schematic.  This is an example of my understanding of Luc's measurements but using your values.  Using the current flows shown, we consume 1 watt from the supply via the input, and we return 9 watts via the output thru the recovery diode to the supply.  Thee black box is magically generating
8 watts over and above the input consumption of 1 watt.

Regards,
Pm   

[gotoluc]

Hi Gotoluc,

How can you turn off recovery the upper and lower switch diodes are the MOSFET body diodes you can't turn them off, all you can do is look at the bridge board supply with the current clamp to see the current pulses returned to the caps when the MOSFETs turn off.

Regards

L192

Yes, I forgot about the mosfet body diode. So basically when I shut off my 30 external quality diodes the mosfet's body diode kick in which is not quite as good quality and why we see a slight increase in input current.

Thanks for the reminder

Regards
Luc