Pierre's 170W in 1600W out Looped Very impressive Build continued & moderated

[jerdee]

Thanks Pierre,

Yes I'm beginning to understand much better now.   A magnet has two poles, which I prefer to call a pole pair.  For a generator to work, you must always have each pole (the north and south) 180º apart.
By increasing pole pairs, you can DECREASE your frequency needed to rotate as well as your number of required relays. 

60 * freq. / 3 Pole Pairs 

Can also be represented as:
2 poles * 60 * freq. / 6 Poles

At 3x freq. You can combine 3 norths into one group, and three souths into one group of coils.  This is how I understand your latest posted image. 

Referring to my image for each coil group.  Tie all same numbered wires together.  So 1's together, 2's together...etc.. 

For a 6 pole system (3x freq), you have a 36 stator with a 6 coil span.
For a 30 stator we have 5 coil span to maintain 6 poles (3x freq).

If we convert our system to a  1 pole pair system, you are right, we have a MUCH stronger magnetic field. For a 36 stator, this requires a 18 coil span, while 30 stator requires a 15 coil span for each coil!    We would need 30 coils at 15 coil span (width).  This  requires 30 H-Bridges.  While on a 36 stator, this requires 36 H-Bridges.

By increasing frequency and poles you decrease your relays/h-bridges but at the risk of lowering your pole strength.  That is the lesson I'm learning.

Much appreciate your help. Quite the numbers game as I have mentioned. 
Jerdee


Fr.  Merci Pierre,
Oui, je commence à mieux comprendre maintenant. Un aimant a deux pôles, que je préfère appeler une paire de pôles. Pour qu'un générateur fonctionne, vous devez toujours avoir chaque pôle (le nord et le sud) à 180º l'un de l'autre.
En augmentant les paires de pôles, vous pouvez DIMINUER votre fréquence nécessaire à la rotation ainsi que votre nombre de relais requis.

60 * fréquence / 3 paires de poteaux

Peut également être représenté comme:
2 pôles * 60 * freq. / 6 pôles

À 3x freq. Vous pouvez combiner 3 nord en un groupe et trois sud en un groupe de spires. C'est ainsi que je comprends votre dernière image postée.

Se référant à mon image pour chaque groupe de bobines. Attachez tous les mêmes fils numérotés ensemble. Donc 1 ensemble, 2 ensemble ... etc.

Pour un système à 6 pôles (3x freq), vous avez un stator de 36 avec une portée de 6 bobines.
Pour un stator de 30 nous avons 5 bobine d'espace pour maintenir 6 pôles (3x freq).

Si nous convertissons notre système en un système à une paire de pôles, vous avez raison, nous avons un champ magnétique BEAUCOUP plus fort. Pour un stator de 36, ceci nécessite une portée de 18 bobines, tandis que 30 stators nécessitent une portée de 15 bobines pour chaque bobine! Nous aurions besoin de 30 bobines à 15 bobine d'espace (largeur). Cela nécessite 30 H-ponts. Alors que sur un 36 stator, cela nécessite 36 H-ponts.

En augmentant la fréquence et les pôles, vous diminuez vos relais / ponts h, mais vous risquez de réduire la force de vos pôles. C'est la leçon que j'apprends.

J'apprécie beaucoup votre aide. Tout le jeu des nombres comme je l'ai mentionné.
Jerdee

[TinselKoala]

Finally got back to the starting point. New bridge boards all working. 5 coil 30slot stator.

25V into super cap bank from current limited switched mode DC supply. Bridge boards connected to this rail via 16A circuit breaker.

Adjusted clock for largest output, using the pot control method.

230V 100W bulb used as load.

60uF cap cleans up and maximizes output waveform.
Rotor covers 6 slots and has original generator 2 x 115V windings (in series)

L192

You don't elaborate, but going by the filenames of the scopeshots you provided, I see an average INPUT POWER of 432 watts and an average OUTPUT POWER (presumably using the 100W bulb as load) of 6.15 watts.

Is that right?




Hopefully, everybody is beginning to understand much better now.

[TinselKoala]

I should also mention that a test using coils 1-16 (2 poles) resulted in an asymmetric waveform , with less output than the 6 pole arrangement.
This configuration did produce a very large rotational torque which required extra wedging measures to stop the rotor from turning.  You would think the A/Turns developed should have resulted in very large induction.

As a random thought, I am wondering if the expected flux reversals are instead flux level variations. Time to put the flux probe in the stator -rotor air gap and confirm what is actually happening.See  attached.
Flux appears to bi-polar, as center line on the scope is zero flux.


L192   

Nicely done. For those not familiar with ratiometric Hall probes we might say that this will give a signal that goes from 0V to 5V, with 2.5 V being the "zero flux" baseline, and lower voltages indicate flux in one direction and higher voltages in the other direction. So just as you say the gap sensor is indicating a sinusoidally varying flux, just as intended.

However.... could you not also achieve this exact same effect with only two stator coils, on opposite ends of the rotor, with two H-bridges and PWM?  You probably couldn't get to 60Hz this way using relays but you certainly could with electronic switching.

And I'll bet it would be a lot more efficient than the full version, too.

[r2fpl]

Nicely done. For those not familiar with ratiometric Hall probes we might say that this will give a signal that goes from 0V to 5V, with 2.5 V being the "zero flux" baseline, and lower voltages indicate flux in one direction and higher voltages in the other direction. So just as you say the gap sensor is indicating a sinusoidally varying flux, just as intended.

However.... could you not also achieve this exact same effect with only two stator coils, on opposite ends of the rotor, with two H-bridges and PWM?  You probably couldn't get to 60Hz this way using relays but you certainly could with electronic switching.

And I'll bet it would be a lot more efficient than the full version, too.

Only 1 coil + H-BRIDGE

old video: https://youtu.be/bE1ilIot8tU

[listener192]

Only 1 coil + H-BRIDGE

old video: https://youtu.be/bE1ilIot8tU

Yes, 1 coil produces a much higher output however, it is just flux linkage as per a transformer.
L192