Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment

[itsu]

Void,

well, my whole point was to show that the current probe data is stable and not moving while the blue voltage
probe data (phase) changes when changing the ground reference.

So to me this means that in this case/setup, the current probe is the most reliable.
Also backed up by the fact that when calculating Pin using this current probe data (amplitude AND phase)
the results are the same as with my earlier setup and data (COP=1)

Using the voltage probe data and especially the phase (0) data instead shows a halving of the COP to 0.5
which i find unbelievable.


Changing the positions of my probe leads does not influence the the amplitude nor the phase of the signals.
But i know what you mean as i have seen that before too.
The probes become part of the circuit and can have a dramatic effect on the presented data.

Itsu

[Void]

Hi Itsu. Yes, sounds within reason to me that the efficiency in such a circuit if
tuned to the right frequency range could give a high efficiency of close to 100%.
All the best.

[tinman]

Brad,

I rather think that in the multiple probe setup (1st screenshot), the blue CH2 is somehow "forced" to join up
with the phase of CH1 yellow due to the same ground points.


Itsu

Itsu

I still have a hard time believing that CH1 and CH2 should not be in phase.
Unless your CSR is some what inductive,CH1 and CH2s phase should always line up.
Simply remove CH2s ground lead,and leave it floating. Your scope shares a common ground-dose it not?. If so,then removing CH2s ground lead,and just leave it lying on the bench, should make no difference to the phase angle between CH1 and CH2.

If you see no change in phase angle between CH1 and CH2 when you remove CH2s ground lead,then your current probe is not showing you correct results.

If the phase angle between CH1 and CH2 dose change when you remove CH2s ground lead,then you have a problem with one of your scope probes or leads,as the phase angle should not change when removing one of the ground clip leads--as long as 1 remains clipped to the ground reference point.
It may also be that your CSR is some what inductive.


Brad

[tinman]

Itsu

I have carried out the below tests,and i cannot get CH1s and CH2s phase to alter,regardless of frequency--until up around 11MHz,when something odd happens.

I am using my tape wound bifi coil--you may have seen it in previous experiments.
Schematic below,along with scope shots at each frequency.
I also removed CH2s ground lead,and carried out the tests again--no difference found.

Chanel colors as in schematic,along with resistor values as used.
Resistors are 100 watt non inductive.

Im not going to calculate results for tests 1-5,but only for test 6 at 11MHz

First you will note in test 6 that ch2s voltage is leading ch1s voltage--odd 
But the fun begins when we calculate our power in and out 

P/in is CH1 x (Ch1-CH2)/2
P/in =49.8mW

P/out is 6.59vrms over 10 ohms
P/out=4342.81 mW 

So my COP in this test is 8720.48%

Obviously i have done something wrong,and i am attempting to find that mistake now.


Brad

[Void]

For the diagram that was provided with the CSR in the 'positive' wire of the function generator,
that is incorrect for trying to measure the phase angle of Iin. You are trying to measure the phase
angle across both the function generator and the CSR in series when doing it that way. It is incorrect.
You can't measure the phase angle between the voltage and current waveforms that way. If you tried that
same CSR and ground placement  arrangement with a regular transformer (with the primary having both wires connected),
you would also get incorrect phase angle measurement results. If you want to place the CSR there, I believe you would
have to make the common ground point for all the probe grounds right at the 'positive' terminal of the function generator,
before the CSR.