Open Source Vs. Patenting

[Xformer]

I am confused.  You are citing examples of Steorn and EBM, which have produced nothing because they have nothing.  It is not a patent issue, it is an inablitiy-to-produce issue.

Interestingly, there is an equal amount of open-source working free energy devices - zero.

@utilitarian
Would U please give us some more solid examples of working FE devices  getting to --- zero?
Are those technical issues or personal issues?

I assume open source always give immediate positive educational effects for general public on tech ideas and info.
Would that be considered overall as a better human achievement !?

[professor]

Right on!
Unfortunately I have to agree with you.
But what is the recourse?
Having as many devices as you can afford build in China or in countries not dictated to by you know who?
then have them flood the Market.
Only problem is you will not be able to import these devices.
Get rid of the  "You know who" is the only solution that I can see,besides keeping your invention to yourself .
Professor




quote author=d3adp00l link=topic=1821.msg32727#msg32727 date=1180326419]
One problem my friend, if I see what you design, and I have money, then I get my lawyers to patent it, that I sue you into the stone age(and everyone you sold plans to). Then I change it a bit so it doesn't quite work show that product, no one has faith in it and it disappears. 7 years of slander and mystique put it out of the main stream, and that is about it. If you the original inventor decide to build it after the 7 years, I just threaten you and your family, heck I might even do something more than scare you. Or just buy you off, cough(Steven mark(s)). Its a game of chess and one doesn't win chess by making one winning move its a series of moves that leads up to that one move and keeping your opponent from seeing your end goal.
[/quote]

[jeffc]

Problem is when you have a f.e machine and you do not patent it. Sombody will come around and claim the idea as theirs and do patent it and stop all progress on the thing. You can't do a thing because they have the patent, and are sitting on it.

What you can do is:
Invent a f.e device. Patent it. BUT be fully transparant in the patent. Discribe everything. So people can fully and without hidden stuff replicate it completely. In that way a patent can become a worldwide available and free instuction manual for all.

Nali2001,

I don't agree with your assumption about patents.  Patents cannot be granted for things already invented.  Now, that doesn't mean the patent office knows everything that has been invented, but they do check many sources, including anything published by groups such as IEEE.  So if you invent a FE machine, you need to open source it and publish it everywhere you can, especially at official places like IEEE which will prove the date you published. 

Of course, you could also decide to patent your invention too, and many people here don't seem to realize that a patent doesn't prevent you from giving the invention to the public.  As a patent holder you can do whatever you want with the invention, including giving it to the public.

Regards,
jeffc

[jeffc]

Right on!
Unfortunately I have to agree with you.
But what is the recourse?
Having as many devices as you can afford build in China or in countries not dictated to by you know who?
then have them flood the Market.
Only problem is you will not be able to import these devices.
Get rid of the  "You know who" is the only solution that I can see,besides keeping your invention to yourself .
Professor




quote author=d3adp00l link=topic=1821.msg32727#msg32727 date=1180326419]
One problem my friend, if I see what you design, and I have money, then I get my lawyers to patent it, that I sue you into the stone age(and everyone you sold plans to). Then I change it a bit so it doesn't quite work show that product, no one has faith in it and it disappears. 7 years of slander and mystique put it out of the main stream, and that is about it. If you the original inventor decide to build it after the 7 years, I just threaten you and your family, heck I might even do something more than scare you. Or just buy you off, cough(Steven mark(s)). Its a game of chess and one doesn't win chess by making one winning move its a series of moves that leads up to that one move and keeping your opponent from seeing your end goal.

Patents take a while to be granted, typically 18 months to several years.  That should be plenty of time for a working invention to be spread around the world open source.

Regards,
jeffc

[ashtweth_nihilisti]

>I am confused.  You are citing examples of Steorn and EBM, which have produced nothing because they have nothing.  It is not a patent issue, it is an inablitiy-to-produce issue

Your confused as you don't know all the facts

1) i have personally spoken to EBM, and they offered for us to come up and learn their technology (they have a physical device there)
http://panacea-bocaf.org/energybymotion.htm

They also now charge an enormous amount of money to partner with them.
Steorn another story but same pattern with the patent.

Its only down the track they had to the independent validation, but still could they have not of done what ossie freedom did and got it out there in REAL time?
The FACTS are simple.

Patent, stagnation
open source=progress and renumeration is possible