Lords of the Ring

[bolt]

Look  we just ask GK on sunday night how many volts and amps his tpu is putting out....no worries.

[giantkiller]

I am hustling.
I have one of the gennys built. The jameco je2206 has a parts mishap. I fix. The dual 2206 will let me set f1 then jump 7.5 and set f2. f1 has to be in some resonant area of the coil. So to maintain a 7.5hz window while I sweep will be tedious. Hence the PIC microcntllr connected to the dual channel DAC. I get 12 bit control via a pc interface. Any coil, any dance. I will be able to throw any coil on and get the operational specs with this controller.
This will adapt to the parameters grumpy and bolt are talking aout.
I can set the window width then move f1 or f2 and they will travel as pairs maintaining the window.
I will call this controller the 'Magnetic heterodyner'!

--giantkiller. See?

[dutchy1966]

Now, what if the projectile fired from the second cannon were another
cannon and you fired it.
Since the second cannon is traveling at 2000 miles per hour then the
projectile you fire from it would make 3000 miles per hour, and so on and
so on....
The energy released from the speed of multiple projectiles increases the
energy available to be dissipated upon impact many fold!

upon impact many fold! that is key,
That is what i make of the canonn ball analogy, if this is not the case,then we should have seen 3 seperate firing cannons and end up with 3 seperate projectiles travelling at 1000 miles each, but i do not think this is the case....

if anybody makes something diffrent about this canonn ball analogy, let's hear it so we can discuss it.

Marco.

Hi Marco,

I'd like to comment on your explanation, as you asked for.....
When i read SM's words I don't think it stops after 3 cannons to collect the energy. He clearly states "and so on, and so on". He is telling us there, that he keeps speeding it up and up. Which makes sense because he also told us that the field is rotating at an incredible high speed (near light speed!).

Personally I think the explanation I found on waterfuelforall.com (which basically is the Bob Boyce way) comes very close. It covers all the ingredients for a tpu, vortex creation and the danger of runaway by going excactly on frequency. I know this makes use of a core, but the principle is also valid for air core coils. The longitudinal waves get so strong and fast after a while (tpu winding up!) that it drags or pushes  the electrons in the collector. I just think SM somehow managed to do this with sinewaves instead of pulses.   

This is wahat is stated there:


Hi Guys,

This might be a long post, but bare with me, as I try to explain my understanding of what happens in the toroidial core during hydroxy  operation, and try to explain the runaway condition that Bob Boyce has been warning us all about.



For the purpose of this explanation, I have quickly drawn the toroid with it?s 3 primary windings.  Note that it?s not connected to anything, nor does it show any secondaries or anything else.  It?s just to explain what goes on in the toroid itself.   You will see the windings are marked 1, 2 and 3, and I will be referring to each of these as we go along.

But first, let?s look at a few fundamental differences between the Boyce PWM controller and the one that Mr Banki designed. 

The PWM circuit designed by Bob Boyce uses three individually adjusted frequency pots, and while this does give you greater control to a certain degree, this is not deeded, as we would like to have the three frequencies in exact ratio?s with each other, those ratio?s being F, F/2 and F/4.  If the electronics we use supports this formula, the it would mean that we would only have to tune F, and the other 2 frequencies will automatically be adjusted to by the circuit to be correct.  The circuit that Mr Banki designed allows for just this, so from a ?tuning? perspective, his circuit is a little easier to operate. 

Then, there is something called phase.  Going a little deeper, we get phase drift, as well as phase lock.  What does this mean?  Well, if you look at the attached picture, you will  see that the toroid there is wound with 3 coils, each coil being more or less 120 degrees apart from each other.  Because a toroid is round, which gives us 360 degrees, if we want 3 coils evenly spaced out on that coil, we would have to wind them 120 degrees apart.  Now, this is where the ?phase? word comes in again.  If I were to pulse each of these 3 coils, one at a time, and use a phase locked circuit to do so, it would mean that every coil will be pulsed in a 120 degree (timing) fashion.  However, if I pulse them in a drifting phase manner, then it would mean that the pulses would not be ?timed? as such, but would just pulse randomly one after the other.  Now, the circuit designed by Bob Boyce has been designed for a drifting phase, whereas the circuit designed by Mr Banki was designed to include a phase lock.  It is this phase drift and phase lock scenario that we will be looking at more closely to try and figure out what the implications of phase drift vs phase lock is.

So, to recap, the Banki circuit does automatic frequency division and phase lock, while the Boyce circuit has to be tuned manually for each frequency, and the phase drifts all the time.  There are numerous other differences between these circuits, but for the purpose of this discussion, I will only be focusing on these two?

Now, let?s for the moment assume that I am pulsing my toroid with the circuit designed by Mr Banki.  This will mean that by default, the frequencies I pulse the toroid at will be already divided, and will also be in phase as wel..

So, the first pulse is generated and sent to the windings at #1.  The electricity goes through the windings, and generates an electro-magnetic field.  This in turn induces a higher potential on the secondary windings, which is then carried to the cell to start disassociating the water.  However, some of this electro-magnetic energy will not be sent to the cell, but will remain ?moving? in the toroidial core. 

Now, this electro-magnetic field moves through the core, and it reaches windings #2.  At this very moment, because the circuit is in phase, the windings at #2 will be pulsed.  Again, the same thing will happen.  An electro-magnetic field will be induced and through the secondary windings go to the cell to further the hydroxyl production.  BUT, something else also happened here?

Because the frequency being sent through the wires at #2 is and exact harmonic of #1, and because the circuit is in phase, it will mean that the extra electro magnetic field left over by the pulsing of #2 will not be ADDED onto the extra field left over by the pulsing of #1.  And because they are in harmony with each other, what we will get is a STANDING WAVE.  To witness this effect easily, take a bucket of water, and let one drop fall into the centre of the bucket.  The waves generated by that event will travel outward, hit the edge, and then come back, and where the outgoing and incoming waves meet, a standing wave will be created.

On a more atomic level, what is actually happening here is that we are causing the particles (protons or electrons) to spin faster and faster, as they accumulate more energy from this electro-magnetic field.

So, now that we have generated this standing wave at #2, we carry on, and this standing wave is now passed onto #3, where, once again it is being pulsed by the circuit in phase, and harmonically in tune as well.  Once again, the same thing will happen, and we will be adding potential to the now ever growing electro magnetic field that exists in our toroid.

After running this condition for a few seconds, we will start to generate a vortex of electro-static energy inside the toroid.  There have been numerous experiments done in this regards, some of where were called TEP (Time Energy Pump, http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/tep7pics.jpg or http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rcoil.htm),  Steven Marks TPU, etc.

What happens from here?  Well, now we are busy creating an ever growing vortex of electro-static energy?  This will do some weird things.  First, your cell with water will be bombarded by ?extra? energy on each pulse, as this extra energy will be induced on every secondary each time it passes that coil.  Furthermore, the every growing vortex you are creating will keep on expanding, pulling LEM energy from the ?eather? so to speak, and it is at this point that your life will be in serious danger.

What can we do to safely scale up the hydroxy being produced while still staying alive?
Well, Bob Boyce speaks about an extra winding on the toroid, called longitudinal windings.  I assume that this winding will be more or less the same as the one Stan Meyers talks about in his VIC arrangement, where it is used to pick up and report the energy gained, thus measuring how far or how close we are to creating a runaway situation.  Once we measure the gained energy to be close to the HV bias, we can then either manually or intelligently (through ?smart or intelligent?) circuits adjust the phase so that it does not operate in the 120 degree fashion any more, to allow the situation to stabilize. 

If we don?t do it, we will be accumulating extra energy all the time, and very soon we will create things like the lightning strike that hit Bob a few years ago, or the death ray that Tesla spoke about, and things can get very bad from there.


Well, I hope that all this babble made some sense, and even though the terminology used to describe the different energies at work here might be wrong (I am but an amateur still), I believe that the basic principle of what?s happening stays the same. 

The long and the short of everything I mentioned here is that the circuit that Mr. Banki designed is, by it?s very nature to some degree already in resonance, because  it will have the ability to pick up or tap into the LEM energy fields and convert that LEM energy to TEM energy and send it to the cell to produce large amounts of hydroxy by using a relatively small amount of input power, provided that the right conditions are met in terms of windings, polarity, etc etc.

Take care



Hope this is usefull.

Regards

Robert

[bolt]

its not really the frequency themselves thats the issue. It because basically to have to make use with what your got. Whatever is happening is not artificially generated by some tiny sig gen IC because you will never produce any power unless the coils want to resonate in some manor. So we are limited to  what the coils and capacitors are capable of producing. If we artificially generate the frequencies you cant add to it in terms of feedback power becuase the coils will just say FO thats not what i want do.  This will be different in every device. It more likely that we start with a hartely or colpitts oscillator somewhere based on one of the coils. This will produce nice sine waves of low distortion and not some IC with 3% distortion.  Now to produce 7.5 hz  straight off the bat needs  HUGE coil with about 10,000 turns and maybe with a core too so i very much doubt its been produced in this manor. All we have to go by is the collectors are only 10 20 turns whatever no core so if i stick say 2.2uf cap on this and see what i get its could be 1.5 megs. If i do the same with the 120 degree control coil which are wound over the collectors maybe 100 turns but with a copper core passing thorugh as the collector it must do something to lower the frequncy it still might come out at 750k and still no way as low as 7.5 Hz. Plus you cant just add a massive cap as part of LC there is a point where L becomes insignificant and it stops working. If this i true where are the big caps hanging out of the small tpu's there are none!

So it remains to me that there must be 2 high frequencies generated first then we get what we want as a heterodyne. 7.5 Hz is not ruled out if we don't interact with this frequncy then we have no hum. And the 7.5 Hz vibration felt and described by SM in the units makes no sense.

I just recalled. Did SM mention he noticed in some tpu's the frequencies are often over a meg and some PC scopes wont be able to see whats going on?

[tao]

Now, what if the projectile fired from the second cannon were another
cannon and you fired it.
Since the second cannon is traveling at 2000 miles per hour then the
projectile you fire from it would make 3000 miles per hour, and so on and
so on....
The energy released from the speed of multiple projectiles increases the
energy available to be dissipated upon impact many fold!

upon impact many fold! that is key,
That is what i make of the canonn ball analogy, if this is not the case,then we should have seen 3 seperate firing cannons and end up with 3 seperate projectiles travelling at 1000 miles each, but i do not think this is the case....

if anybody makes something diffrent about this canonn ball analogy, let's hear it so we can discuss it.

Marco.

Hi Marco,

I'd like to comment on your explanation, as you asked for.....
When i read SM's words I don't think it stops after 3 cannons to collect the energy. He clearly states "and so on, and so on". He is telling us there, that he keeps speeding it up and up. Which makes sense because he also told us that the field is rotating at an incredible high speed (near light speed!).

Personally I think the explanation I found on waterfuelforall.com (which basically is the Bob Boyce way) comes very close. It covers all the ingredients for a tpu, vortex creation and the danger of runaway by going excactly on frequency. I know this makes use of a core, but the principle is also valid for air core coils. The longitudinal waves get so strong and fast after a while (tpu winding up!) that it drags or pushes  the electrons in the collector. I just think SM somehow managed to do this with sinewaves instead of pulses.   

This is wahat is stated there:


Hi Guys,

This might be a long post, but bare with me, as I try to explain my understanding of what happens in the toroidial core during hydroxy  operation, and try to explain the runaway condition that Bob Boyce has been warning us all about.



For the purpose of this explanation, I have quickly drawn the toroid with it?s 3 primary windings.  Note that it?s not connected to anything, nor does it show any secondaries or anything else.  It?s just to explain what goes on in the toroid itself.   You will see the windings are marked 1, 2 and 3, and I will be referring to each of these as we go along.

But first, let?s look at a few fundamental differences between the Boyce PWM controller and the one that Mr Banki designed. 

The PWM circuit designed by Bob Boyce uses three individually adjusted frequency pots, and while this does give you greater control to a certain degree, this is not deeded, as we would like to have the three frequencies in exact ratio?s with each other, those ratio?s being F, F/2 and F/4.  If the electronics we use supports this formula, the it would mean that we would only have to tune F, and the other 2 frequencies will automatically be adjusted to by the circuit to be correct.  The circuit that Mr Banki designed allows for just this, so from a ?tuning? perspective, his circuit is a little easier to operate. 

Then, there is something called phase.  Going a little deeper, we get phase drift, as well as phase lock.  What does this mean?  Well, if you look at the attached picture, you will  see that the toroid there is wound with 3 coils, each coil being more or less 120 degrees apart from each other.  Because a toroid is round, which gives us 360 degrees, if we want 3 coils evenly spaced out on that coil, we would have to wind them 120 degrees apart.  Now, this is where the ?phase? word comes in again.  If I were to pulse each of these 3 coils, one at a time, and use a phase locked circuit to do so, it would mean that every coil will be pulsed in a 120 degree (timing) fashion.  However, if I pulse them in a drifting phase manner, then it would mean that the pulses would not be ?timed? as such, but would just pulse randomly one after the other.  Now, the circuit designed by Bob Boyce has been designed for a drifting phase, whereas the circuit designed by Mr Banki was designed to include a phase lock.  It is this phase drift and phase lock scenario that we will be looking at more closely to try and figure out what the implications of phase drift vs phase lock is.

So, to recap, the Banki circuit does automatic frequency division and phase lock, while the Boyce circuit has to be tuned manually for each frequency, and the phase drifts all the time.  There are numerous other differences between these circuits, but for the purpose of this discussion, I will only be focusing on these two?

Now, let?s for the moment assume that I am pulsing my toroid with the circuit designed by Mr Banki.  This will mean that by default, the frequencies I pulse the toroid at will be already divided, and will also be in phase as wel..

So, the first pulse is generated and sent to the windings at #1.  The electricity goes through the windings, and generates an electro-magnetic field.  This in turn induces a higher potential on the secondary windings, which is then carried to the cell to start disassociating the water.  However, some of this electro-magnetic energy will not be sent to the cell, but will remain ?moving? in the toroidial core. 

Now, this electro-magnetic field moves through the core, and it reaches windings #2.  At this very moment, because the circuit is in phase, the windings at #2 will be pulsed.  Again, the same thing will happen.  An electro-magnetic field will be induced and through the secondary windings go to the cell to further the hydroxyl production.  BUT, something else also happened here?

Because the frequency being sent through the wires at #2 is and exact harmonic of #1, and because the circuit is in phase, it will mean that the extra electro magnetic field left over by the pulsing of #2 will not be ADDED onto the extra field left over by the pulsing of #1.  And because they are in harmony with each other, what we will get is a STANDING WAVE.  To witness this effect easily, take a bucket of water, and let one drop fall into the centre of the bucket.  The waves generated by that event will travel outward, hit the edge, and then come back, and where the outgoing and incoming waves meet, a standing wave will be created.

On a more atomic level, what is actually happening here is that we are causing the particles (protons or electrons) to spin faster and faster, as they accumulate more energy from this electro-magnetic field.

So, now that we have generated this standing wave at #2, we carry on, and this standing wave is now passed onto #3, where, once again it is being pulsed by the circuit in phase, and harmonically in tune as well.  Once again, the same thing will happen, and we will be adding potential to the now ever growing electro magnetic field that exists in our toroid.

After running this condition for a few seconds, we will start to generate a vortex of electro-static energy inside the toroid.  There have been numerous experiments done in this regards, some of where were called TEP (Time Energy Pump, http://jnaudin.free.fr/images/tep7pics.jpg or http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/rcoil.htm),  Steven Marks TPU, etc.

What happens from here?  Well, now we are busy creating an ever growing vortex of electro-static energy?  This will do some weird things.  First, your cell with water will be bombarded by ?extra? energy on each pulse, as this extra energy will be induced on every secondary each time it passes that coil.  Furthermore, the every growing vortex you are creating will keep on expanding, pulling LEM energy from the ?eather? so to speak, and it is at this point that your life will be in serious danger.

What can we do to safely scale up the hydroxy being produced while still staying alive?
Well, Bob Boyce speaks about an extra winding on the toroid, called longitudinal windings.  I assume that this winding will be more or less the same as the one Stan Meyers talks about in his VIC arrangement, where it is used to pick up and report the energy gained, thus measuring how far or how close we are to creating a runaway situation.  Once we measure the gained energy to be close to the HV bias, we can then either manually or intelligently (through ?smart or intelligent?) circuits adjust the phase so that it does not operate in the 120 degree fashion any more, to allow the situation to stabilize. 

If we don?t do it, we will be accumulating extra energy all the time, and very soon we will create things like the lightning strike that hit Bob a few years ago, or the death ray that Tesla spoke about, and things can get very bad from there.


Well, I hope that all this babble made some sense, and even though the terminology used to describe the different energies at work here might be wrong (I am but an amateur still), I believe that the basic principle of what?s happening stays the same. 

The long and the short of everything I mentioned here is that the circuit that Mr. Banki designed is, by it?s very nature to some degree already in resonance, because  it will have the ability to pick up or tap into the LEM energy fields and convert that LEM energy to TEM energy and send it to the cell to produce large amounts of hydroxy by using a relatively small amount of input power, provided that the right conditions are met in terms of windings, polarity, etc etc.

Take care



Hope this is usefull.

Regards

Robert

If it really just is a precise MATCHING, OVERLAYING of the signals from the control coils that is the key,
then this can surely be explained by the HUNGARIAN ... http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3068.0.html

Please note, that it is MUCH easier to SUPERPOSITION longitudinal waves, than TEM waves. So, this definitely seems to fit what is in that post above.

For, if the control coils that are spaced 120 degrees apart are creating longitudinal waves at the key moments when the wave from the previous coil superpositions the next fired longitudinal wave, then you have a situation clearly explained by the Hungarian fellow. You have energy being input into the system from the environment due to longitudinal wave superposition. What better geometric figure to allow for this superposition than a circle?

This accounts for the canon-analogy and water-analogy from SM. For, as the moving/standing field is going around the TPU's circle 'track' it is constantly being superpositioned with the next successive longitudinal pulse wave generated by each success control coil around the 'track'. So, you have this massive longitudinal wave being built up in a rotating circular track around the TPU. This wave could then be tapped at will and converted at will to TEM for our use...

Interesting, nonetheless...