Building an OU Motor/Generator combination

[MWestland]

I've been working on a motor/generator combination for over ten years now, and have tried to disclose things, but nobody wants to believe me. So I thought perhaps I would bring a basic setup HERE, and we could have a reasonable discussion about why I am full of crap. Or maybe I have some things figured out. Who knows?

Anyway, there are a couple issues that make a generator of any size a difficult device to power, and a big one is Lenz. So let's take a look at Lenz first. Lenz is NOT a law. Lenz is a reaction. Like ALL reactions it is made up of various parts. Change one of these parts, and you affect the whole. Let's take a look at what ACTUALLY happens during the Lenz reaction. Assume the generator coil is loaded or shorted.

First, the rotor magnet is attracted to the material of the generator coil core and this causes the rotor to accelerate. (Visible probably only on a SMALL setup).
Second, the approaching magnet's field begins to permeate the core material, spreading EQUALLY through the core. (This is important!!!!)
Third, the flux in the core begins to cause the wires to generate electricity which spreads EQUALLY throughout the coil. (This is important!!!!)
Fourth, the electricity in the coil begin to turn the core into an electromagnet with a polarity that opposes the approaching magnet.
That repulsion of the approaching magnet is referred to as the "Lenz reaction"
One thing after another after another after another must happen for Lenz to occur. The variable people FORGET in this equation is TIME, but that will come later.

Is all of this TRUE? If so, how do we deal with Lenz? Well, here is one extreme example. Make the core of the coil two feet long. What happens now? The magnetic field of the passing magnet spreads equally throughout the core, but it never accumulates enough flux to cause the wires to generate electricity. No Lenz reaction? Well, what actually happened is that time ran out because the magnet moved past the core BEFORE it could be filled with enough flux. No power production EITHER, but at least now it is clear that Lenz CAN be manipulated. All the required elements took place, but Lenz did not occur did it? Start shortening the core until it is long enough to DELAY the Lenz reaction until the rotor magnet has reached perfect alignment with the coil core, and the outcome is far different.

Another example is to simply SPEED up the rotor so FAST that by the time the Lenz reaction can occur, the rotor magnet is ALREADY perfectly aligned with the coil core. These are not the only solutions. Once you understand what the components ARE of the Lenz reaction, you can start thinking of various ways to ALTER them. Some work well. Others not so much.

Here is what an EE who is also a physicist had to say about Lenz:

"It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome."


I hope what I have just shared here will get some of you to think. Lenz is not the only issue and there is more than one way to skin that cat. I know a few. I pointed out TWO already, and there are more. I am actually not using EITHER of the ones I pointed out.

Take a look at the following video and maybe we can come to a meeting of the minds.
Here is a video of a very simple setup.
A battery. A reed switch to complete the circuit.
A small rotor with all N magnets (any GOOD generator will have a rotor with N/S magnets)
A generator coil
A light bulb
A motor coil
Two small magnets
A stack of magnets (only because a stack is easier to hold and not let slip out of my hand. A single magnet will work just as well.)

https://youtu.be/90t071rVfmE

[ramset]

Nice to see you around , if you like you could start a moderated board here ( Stefan has feature for builders boards  now ...so topics stay on topic ) !
For clarity "you would be the moderator of your board"

Been a long time , thanks for persevering !


Respectfully
Chet
Ps
I did start putting word out to some builders to have a look !  ( some are old friends of yours .... others new !)

[MWestland]

By the way, as I move the magnets in toward the rotor, I go TOO FAR, and that causes a negative reaction.

Nice to see you around too Chet. They can't get rid of me. I'm like gum on someone's shoe! LOL

[Bob Smith]

Very Interesting, and thanks for sharing this.

So as you saturate the coil cores with magnets...

- the Lenz interaction between rotor magnets and coils decreases, allowing the rotor to speed up?
- the diminished Lenz forces results in a lower amp draw?

What you're doing makes a lot of sense to me, if I'm understanding this correctly. Is it really such a simple principle to circumvent or significantly diminish Lenz?
Bob

[MWestland]

Honestly Bob, I am not exactly sure WHAT is happening. I do not know if this addresses Lenz AT ALL. I once had a friend tell me "Don't worry about WHY something works. When you find an interesting effect, figure out a way to use it to your advantage, and let the people with brains fight over WHY it works. (They WILL) That's what I do.

In the big generator I built, I see that magnets across from the generator coils counteract the attraction of the rotor magnets to the coil cores, so I USE that. With this little machine I was showing someone that putting the correct polarity magnet across the rotor from the generator coil would cause the motor to speed up. As does putting the OPPOSITE polarity magnet across the rotor from the motor coil. ( Which I FORGOT to show in this video) I was playing around with those magnets and added one to the back of the motor coil, and the motor sped up. So I added one (opposite polarity) to the back of the generator coil, and the motor sped up again. NONE of these things caused an increase in the amp draw of the motor. They all caused a decrease in amp draw and an increase in RPM.

So what I now know is: One polarity positively affects the motor coil, and the opposite polarity positively affects the generator coil.

To see what the total benefit of this is, I need to be able to measure the RPM of the rotor efficiently and accurately. The RPM meter I bought only works on a South magnet and my rotor magnets are North, so I have been trying to figure out a way to use it.

I need to measure the RPM and Amp draw with NO generator coil in place. Then add the generator coil and see what the decrease in RPM is, if any, and the increase, if any, in amp draw.  Then add my magnets to see if they compensate for this loss of RPM and increase in amp draw or actually cause the motor to exceed the original RPM at lower amp draw. There is a lot to learn here from this little test setup, so I brought it to the forum so that people could see what I see. Simple enough anyone can build one. If you zoom in on just the amp draw, you can see that it begins at about 25 milliamps, and drops down to a little over 10 milliamps.