Generating 100% noiseless DC voltage and current

[Liberty]

Thinking out loud again...
With the picture that I posted, it may be that magnetic flux flowing in both directions  will cancel out current flow in the coil with flux flowing through both halves of the toroid at the same time in opposite directions, while the center magnet spins?  I suspect it might just result in no power output from the coil or very little output.

Probably the way to avoid current flow conflict within the coil would be to use the original setup that Low-Q suggested by using two magnets in attract (passing flux from one magnet through one side of the toroid/coil to the other magnet on the other side of the toroid).  The magnetic flux would always pass through the coil in the same direction causing current to flow in one direction only for a DC output.  Multiple magnets could be mounted on each side of the coil and spun on a common rotor by a motor.  There might be some opposing field to the rotating magnets on each side of the coil/toroid, similar to the operation of a speaker coil that passes through a magnetic field.  But it looks like most of the opposing magnetic field that is generated (when power is pulled from the coil) would flow in the core of the toroid and cancel out within the toroid core itself.  If the magnetic field that was created by pulling power out of the coil cancelled out in the other side of the toroid core for the most part, (being the easiest flux path); it may not create as much of an opposing force to the field magnet as it passes by?  This might possibly be a type of reduced drag generator?

[Low-Q]

Thinking out loud again...
With the picture that I posted, it may be that magnetic flux flowing in both directions  will cancel out current flow in the coil with flux flowing through both halves of the toroid at the same time in opposite directions, while the center magnet spins?  I suspect it might just result in no power output from the coil or very little output.

Probably the way to avoid current flow conflict within the coil would be to use the original setup that Low-Q suggested by using two magnets in attract (passing flux from one magnet through one side of the toroid/coil to the other magnet on the other side of the toroid).  The magnetic flux would always pass through the coil in the same direction causing current to flow in one direction only for a DC output.  Multiple magnets could be mounted on each side of the coil and spun on a common rotor by a motor.  There might be some opposing field to the rotating magnets on each side of the coil/toroid, similar to the operation of a speaker coil that passes through a magnetic field.  But it looks like most of the opposing magnetic field that is generated (when power is pulled from the coil) would flow in the core of the toroid and cancel out within the toroid core itself.  If the magnetic field that was created by pulling power out of the coil cancelled out in the other side of the toroid core for the most part, (being the easiest flux path); it may not create as much of an opposing force to the field magnet as it passes by?  This might possibly be a type of reduced drag generator?

In bold:
The two magnets have both either south or north pole facing the toroid from both sides. In a loudspeaker, the opposite pole is in the middle of the voice coil where the pole piece are (The iron core inside a toroid transformer), and the other pole is surrounding the voice coil. The same principle must be used on a toroid generator, but the opposite pole must be created in the iron by the pole facing the toroid, and not by an opposite pole on the other side of the toroid.

Br.

Vidar

[tao]

I am willing to bet that your output looks very similar to this(the scopeshot on the right) and that it repeats:


From http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm

It seems that either you and JLN are RIGHT, or FEMM is wrong, OR all are right!

I did tests based on your design in FEMM and when I induce current in the coils, the magnets are opposed and pushed, although VERY little. I did A LOT of tests and wrote down all the X and Y force values that the magnets were feeling then I introduce current in the coils. This means that if you put in a very large current into your toroid, the magnets should move a little bit at least.

BUT, the interesting question we need to ask ourselves is: Due to the oppositional setup of the rotor magnets, and thier interaction with the toroid, is the ratio of back torque on the rotor magnets to the ratio of power output in the toroid coil the SAME or DIFFERENT than normal types of generators that DON'T have their rotor magnets orthogonal to the power output coil??!?!?!?!?!?

Here is a sample shot from one of my sims in FEMM:

[Liberty]

Hi Tao,

That is the same scope shot picture that I thought of with this device.  Would you think if another magnet were added on one side of the original magnets, but spaced away a little, would aid in the flux return flow path through the windings?  (Basically a horseshoe arrangement).  Would FEMM show the optimum spacing for placement of a "return flux magnet"?  Or would it do any good to add a return flux path concentrator in your opinion? 

I would hope that the orthagonal toroid coil might tend to direct or concentrate the magnetic field that is created when power flows from the coil, in the direction of the toroid core, rather than directly at the source field magnet, due to the direction of the windings (similar to a solenoid winding) and the proximity of the core.  Nice pictures Tao and excellent question that really does need to be answered yet.

Hi Vidar,

After more study, I agree with you and your explaination because you are correct, that using directly opposite poles (N-S) might fight current flow in the coil because the coil is approaching the magnetic field from the same direction at the same time (unlike a rotating motor coil).  Therefore, as you stated, you need to use one pole outside of the coil in that spot.  But the FEMM pictures from Tao may possibly suggest that using a horseshoe magnet arrangement might improve flux flow return path.  I suppose polarity and direction of rotation would also be important for placement of return flux magnets (if they would work).
Interesting topic that you brought up Vidar.  It's been fun.
   

[Low-Q]

I am willing to bet that your output looks very similar to this(the scopeshot on the right) and that it repeats:


From http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm

It seems that either you and JLN are RIGHT, or FEMM is wrong, OR all are right!

I did tests based on your design in FEMM and when I induce current in the coils, the magnets are opposed and pushed, although VERY little. I did A LOT of tests and wrote down all the X and Y force values that the magnets were feeling then I introduce current in the coils. This means that if you put in a very large current into your toroid, the magnets should move a little bit at least.

BUT, the interesting question we need to ask ourselves is: Due to the oppositional setup of the rotor magnets, and thier interaction with the toroid, is the ratio of back torque on the rotor magnets to the ratio of power output in the toroid coil the SAME or DIFFERENT than normal types of generators that DON'T have their rotor magnets orthogonal to the power output coil??!?!?!?!?!?

Here is a sample shot from one of my sims in FEMM:

For the given coils shown in the first picture, the scope shots are correct. However a toroid coil has an "infinite" length with no start or end, hence the output will be constant, and not pulsed.

Regarding your question, I have no simple answer. I have just discovered that moving a magnet in circle along the toroids circumference measures a constant DC output. If I reverse the direction, an opposite charge is measured.
If I flip the magnet so both poles are going parallel with the toroid, and then move it in the same way as described earlier, no output is measured.

I have also discovered that the magnet will just flip 90^o when current flows through the windings.

I used a 2300mA N-Mh cell on the toroid coil with 0,5ohm resistance - 390 turns with 1,4mm wire. The current is approx 2A.

Br.

Vidar