Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..

[dingbat]

It's nice to have more solutions instead of just the points, which would work fine, but maybe
not as accurate as your encoder. I don't hope the encoder is more expensive than the points.
So far Jack and I have been working to let the points trigger the control signals to my controller.
This is an easy way for Jack, no motor modifications and it's easy for him to hook up the controller himself.

The encoder is probably higher cost than the points, but I am not seeking compensation for anything I am doing. (I don't think you are either.)  The advantage of using the encoder for development is the ability to adjust the phase and pulsewidth while the motor is running, and to know exactly (to 1 part in 4000) what the timing is.  I foresee that it may be necessary to change the timing based upon load and speed of the motor while it is in operation, similar to an automobile engine.  We could do this easily with this approach.  With mechanical points it is possible, but not practical.

You must know that your cannot feed anything else to the controller except clean stable
signals for each valve. Your outputs must be an open collector circuit with no pullups.
Meaning that when one rotor is in start position you just need to pull down on the
output and when the rotor have moved to it's end position just release the pull down.
There must be no dips or other interuptions from your encoder while the rotor is in pull position.
Just one clean and stable pull down signal while the rotor is in pull mode.

our current output chip is an automotive IC that is used to operate things on vehicles by switching to ground.  The capacity is 200 ma and the normal operating voltage is pulling 12v circuits to ground.  Is your logic voltage greater than 12v?  I will check the maximum allowable voltage of our output driver.  A switched signal from a microcontroller will surely be as clean or cleaner than a signal generated by mechanical points.

P.S.
If Jack would like to do it with points, it is entirely up to him.  Also, this is not necessarily intended as the "production" solution.  It is just a good way to have tight control on the firing, and dynamic adjustment if it proves necessary.

Either way, I will complete the system, because there are many configurations discussed in magnet and pulse motors that would benefit from this type of controller.  When it is finished, I will post information on it.

db

[Gregory]

Hi Honk & Dingbat,

Great work on the controllers!
I hope the motor finally will pass the test!

I am a true beginner in electronics, but I had an idea for a controller some time back.
Isn't it possible to use digital hall effect switches or latches to control the operation of the valves?

It can be switched on and off as needed, and as a dabbler I would think that this method requires the least amount of energy to switch the valves on/off dependent on the rotor position only... So, whether loaded, and whatever speed it runs, it will do just the same, and with a speed change, the pulse width also changes correspondingly, i.e. the valves turned on / off for less time on greater speeds.

I know this idea involves complex driving electronics, but maybe the real problem is that I am a beginner in the subject. I don't know about the accuracy and problems of such controls.

Anyway, Wish you the best with this project.
You have already done a great work.

[dingbat]

Isn't it possible to use digital hall effect switches or latches to control the operation of the valves?

Yes, that is another alternative.  The advantages to an encoder is knowing at all times the position of the rotor, and being able to easily change the timing on the fly.  No need for mechanical adjustments or rotating collars, etc.

It can be switched on and off as needed, and as a dabbler I would think that this method requires the least amount of energy to switch the valves on/off dependent on the rotor position only... So, whether loaded, and whatever speed it runs, it will do just the same, and with a speed change, the pulse width also changes correspondingly, i.e. the valves turned on / off for less time on greater speeds.

Initially I think having precise control is more important than the few watts required for the trigger.  The motor is supposed to be at least several horsepower, so if the control circuit consumes several watts it shouldn't be a significant factor.  Once the timing is developed, the circuit can be replaced with another lower power method, if available.  No switching circuit is devoid of power consumption.  Even points consume mechanical power.  Halls consume some power as well.

I don't think some of the questions about speed and load can be easily answered without testing.

[Honk]

The encoder is probably higher cost than the points, but I am not seeking compensation for anything I am doing.

I meant the price of the encoder and control board at mass production. 

our current output chip is an automotive IC that is used to operate things on vehicles by switching to ground.  The capacity is 200 ma and the normal operating voltage is pulling 12v circuits to ground.  Is your logic voltage greater than 12v?  I will check the maximum allowable voltage of our output driver.  A switched signal from a microcontroller will surely be as clean or cleaner than a signal generated by mechanical points.

Great. This is what I want.
I'm using 15V logic and a RC net at the controller input to filter out the glitches caused by the mechanical points.
So, your outputs must be able to pull down 15V 4.5mA. If not you can add extra pull down transistors.

Either way, I will complete the system, because there are many configurations discussed in magnet and pulse motors that would benefit from this type of controller.  When it is finished, I will post information on it.
db

Sounds fine to me. Once Jack has released his motor I will also release the Flux Booster Controller.
As you said it, the many high inductance magnet and pulse motors could benefit a lot from my controller as well.

[Honk]

Initially I think having precise control is more important than the few watts required for the trigger.  The motor is supposed to be at least several horsepower, so if the control circuit consumes several watts it shouldn't be a significant factor.  Once the timing is developed, the circuit can be replaced with another lower power method, if available.  No switching circuit is devoid of power consumption.  Even points consume mechanical power.  Halls consume some power as well.

I was just reading this message and I realised that we have to feed your CPU encoder board with voltage
comming from the generator when making the self runner.
My controller is designed and ready for self running mode but there is no supply output for any CPU board.
If you have a 110V converter to feed the CPU board from the generator voltage this will solve the problem.
Else way we have to use the points in self running mode. I know Jack will prepare his motors for the points
when building his motor. So this is not a hindrance.