Controller circuit for Hilden Brandt motor needed..

[gyulasun]

.....
It sounds like, when I hear that the back emf from the motor is 2/3 of the input power on an ongoing basis no matter the RPM or mechanical load...well...the only way I could think to explain that is poor coupling between electromagnets and motor armature but that makes no sense if the motor is really as efficient as purported!  I often wonder how much of my (and others) confusion comes from not communicating on the same wavelength with the same terminology and how much comes from not measuring things correctly. 

Seems like in a motor where the coefficient of coupling was extremely high, the input current and BEMF would be highly dependent on mechanical loading!  Anyway...you guys are doing some really neat looking work and with what appears to be top-notch skill levels...world-class actually.  I sure hope the concept pans out for you, fellas!  I'm an OU skeptic, as you may have gathered.

Hi Humbugger,

May I kindly draw your attention to a link below, where you can get yourself introduced to the working principle of Jack's valve.  He says his valve is able to switch on or off a strong permanent magnet.  I write this because from the above text it seems you have not fully in his motor principle.  I would be pleased to read your opinion once you have read this link:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Director:Hilden-Brand_Electromagnet_Motor

Regards
Gyula

[Honk]

I'm impressed with your speed and professional-looking job on the controller.

Thank you very much. I take great pleasures in making my designs both look good and work good at extreme efficiencies.

It looks kind of small to me, and I was taken aback by the 20W worth of big sandbox resistors there (for a 45w unit running 92% eff, that must be pretty extreme overkill on something!), but I'm not privy to the specs and requirements, so, I guess I will just have to wonder!

The PCB measures 87 x 128.5mm and it contains a very high efficiency (92%) AC-DC converter, a 3 phase controller, a 110V
generator sustain unit and a back EMF protection unit and this is what the big sandwiched power resistor are used for.
In case the controller cannot handle the back EMF by a mismatch or some other reason then some of the excess energy is
dumped into the resistors to protect the controller from to high levels of back EMF voltage. The protective back EMF unit
shall not be activated during normal use of the controller. This is purely a safety unit and can be excluded in mass production
when the controller is matched to the motor. If the resistors are running hot during Jack's tests we will have to adjust the
controller to fit the motor more closely.

[Humbugger]

@gyulasun   

Thanks for the link...I had been looking for more info on the principal behind this motor.  It also led back to a huge thread here at overunity I hadn't found before where Jack started a discussion on his motor but then apparently pulled all of his posts at some point...makes it hard to follow now.

The basic idea, it seems, stems from the purported ability to either nullify or quadruple the field strength of a particular cylindrical magnet surrounded by a particular ferrous sleeve and the whole assembly surrounded by a solenoid coil.  It is claimed that this manipulation is done with a mere 8W of DC power for the magnets and sleeves described.  There is an implication that the "magnetic force" being controlled is very much larger than the "electrical force" used to control it. 

What I don't understand is that, if all of the above were indeed true, why bother building a motor with it?  Especially if the plan is to run a generator with the motor to get back to electrical output. 

Why not just use this huge magnetic flux variation that is being controlled by a tiny amount of electrical power applied apparently in well-orchestrated pulses and just hang some pickup coils on it?  What is the advantage of going mechanical and then back to electrical? 

If anyone figures out how to modulate big permanent magnetic fields and make them vary from zero to 4x rapidly, using only a relatively tiny amount of electrical energy, then a MEG-like solid state device would seem to be far preferred to a rotary motor/generator unless there was some need for rotary torque output.  If the idea is electricity in/electricity out over unity (which would be a truly wonderful thing), what's the point of moving and spinning a bunch of physical mass in between?

Am I being dense here?  Have I missed something?  Seems like a lot of these OU inventions have way more elements than needed...let's find the part of the invention responsible for the OU and keep it simple from there!

@Honk...sounds like you're maybe not too sure you can guide the BEMF pulses to the right place at the right time  So the resistors are there to absorb the unlikely excess, eh? 27K ohms 10W...you must be expecting some pretty high-voltage pulses! 

By "small" I meant that I somewhere got the idea that this new motor was supposed to put out several horsepower while only drawing 300-400W of input power...must be confused with another project maybe...been reading about dozens lately!  I was just surprised to see your small input bulk-storage cap and modest 45W rating and no heatsinking of MOSFETS or whatever your switching elements are, that's what I meant by "seems small"...I was thinking several hundred wattswould be needed for some reason.

Anyhoo...please don't mistake my generally skeptical attitude for any kind of personal disrespect.  You guys are building very cool projects that show a lot of savvy and tremendously polished skills.  I just ain't quite convinced of the soundness or clarity of the underlying principals involved.  I tend to "believe" only after I fully "understand". My downfall, I'm sure...

[wattsup]

@Humbugger

I gathered from your reponses sometimes that you had some skeptical streak which in itself is very useful indeed. May you keep it in good measure always.

You and Honk should go and take a look at the thread I started here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2944.0.html

Actually, my idea  is alot like @Humbugger was saying about why turning the rotor.

If you have any ideas, I'm all ears.

Also, the guys working on Otto's ECD could use some of your RF savvy I am sure. The thread ends near here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2535.890.html

I took a look at the web site for your RF device you have developped located here
http://synrad.com/ and it is very impressive indeed.

All the best.

[Honk]

@Honk...sounds like you're maybe not too sure you can guide the BEMF pulses to the right place at the right time  So the resistors are there to absorb the unlikely excess, eh? 27K ohms 10W...you must be expecting some pretty high-voltage pulses! 

I know for sure that I "can guide" the pulses exactly where I want them to go "at the right time". No problems with that.
If the back EMF should get any higher than the transistors in the controller can handle then I can "tune" the back EMF level by a potentiometer.
But I'm living in Sweden and I cannot just go over there and help Jack when he's ready to hook up the controller to his motor.
This is why I have added the protection circuit. It will acctually never reach any 20W when activated. 3-7W is more like it.
It is operating by small pulses that adjust the back EMF voltage to a safe level, but only when needed at mismatch.

By "small" I meant that I somewhere got the idea that this new motor was supposed to put out several horsepower while only drawing 300-400W of input power...must be confused with another project maybe...been reading about dozens lately!  I was just surprised to see your small input bulk-storage cap and modest 45W rating and no heatsinking of MOSFETS or whatever your switching elements are, that's what I meant by "seems small"...I was thinking several hundred wattswould be needed for some reason.

You are right, Jack's motor will consume approx 200-300 watt and putting out several Hp when running on points only.
The whole idea with my controller is that I can make the motor run at full load at almost static valve power e.g 20-25W.
The AC-DC within the controller is was tested at 45W, not rated. It's rated to 85W. I could of course deliver more power from
a 92% efficient AC-DC but there is no gain in feeding more current to the valves of the motor. It would just destroy the magnets.