Chas Campbell free power motor

[sm0ky2]

Just a thought here:   But if i wanted to move a wheel with a ball on a ramp i would do it at the upper 1/4-arch
where the both sideways AND downward motion of the ball would move the wheel. It seems this would be the most efficient method of extracting energy while rolling a ball down a ramp.

[fletcher]

It's Sunday afternoon of the 16th - should get some feedback from Ash soon on the second testing session.

[rMuD]

In my head Chas second device ended up a 1000 KG concrete flywheel cast in a ditch with it's axle fixed onto a generator. Then use the slippery belt stuffs to make it go. You can drive your car on top and give it a good whirl. You think your little coffee maker is going to stop that mass?

I'm not going to do the math. *grin*

I already know concrete is cheaper as batteries. I'm not fooled 

oh they are much heavier than that.. we wanted to put a  600KVA unit in the basement of the building, the elevators couldn't handle the discs individually that made up the 3 meter tall stack of them, we were going to have to dig a hole and cut a hole in the side of the building to put them in.. decided to scrap the project.

Concrete my god that would be a nightmare to balance..  1000KG

Good problem thinking,

Just make it float with it's axle at the height of the bearings.

Bit of wax etc

You can also make 2 of 500 kg on the same axle.

4 of 250 kg etc :-)

Doesn't sound undoable?

Can we fix the generator straight on the axle?

these are already manufactured by 10-20 different companies, and are wide spread used around the world..  generations of experience out there making these

What do you mean? "already", there are millions of ways to build a flywheel.  Already can mean 10-20 things in this post???

Do you have a link to a floating flywheel manufacturer for me?

I cant seem to find any.

Simple search for "Rotary UPS" on Google, comes up with over 1 million hits...

ahhh, great! Thanks for the keywords.

A Rotary UPS is used for High Current Loads to suppliment the power for the 10-20 seconds til the Generator can fire up on a back up power system.   The Rotary UPS is a Motor that spins a flywheel that powers a Generator. This device is placed after your Transfer switch and is directly connected to your load. All Load in your factory, Datacenter, etc.. etc.. etc..  is always connected thru the Rotary UPS Grid Power, Generator, Alternate Power, etc.. is switched before it goes to the Rotary UPS in another words it's a Giant Mechanical Battery

Yes, that's what I found so interesting about it. You can store energy in just about any mass.

What exactly is a Chas's Flywheel motor..   a Motor powering a Flywheel that spins a Generator..  motor loses power..  clutch disenges the motor, the energy stored in the flywheel continues to power the generator.

That's what it appears as to you at your first sight of it. I feel his device makes for an interesting opportunity for you and me to talk about flywheels, slippery drive belts and pulsed acceleration with the slippery belt being the pulse machine. All we need from Chas is the suggestion there is something really exiting hidden in here.

I think it's fantastic to see those dynamic UPS apparatus. They work exactly as I would build them I say in my ignorance of not knowing they even existed. hahaha I should have known really.... but anyway, I read around a bit and they fix the driving axle onto the flywheel? How does it work?

I don't see much going on here with chas's device, when he specifies his results it is in the rated load on the sticker, where I think he is a bit confused on energy needed to operate his device.  Rotary UPS is also used to handle spike loads when your near your full capacity, the flywheel can absorb the peak loads.. like a motor starting, then it can spin back up over time to cover that load..  if I had several 1000HP motors starting at once, I'd rather use a Rotary UPS to handle the mega watt load for 1-2 seconds vs only needing 200-300kw to keep it running

a clutch and/or a torque convertor on a car with a Automatic Transmission, or a "go-kart"  clutch  

Literally, besides the Pulley's  which I have seen older Rotary UPS use..  is the same construction and I will say "concept" as I havn't seen chas's device up close, nor is it to scale as the the smallest Rotary UPS I've seen  400KVA, but I know they do down to 30KVA

There remains much to play and tune the resonant flapping of the belts into harmony with the speed and the size of the wheels. I'm not making any promise there is a benefit if all those effects are tuned. One could gather a lot of data on this. The slipping just caps the energy intake.

What I want to know:

1) How much losses are there relative to the size of those big flywheels.

2) I'm trying to imagine using a windmill to zero out the losses.

3) What kind of size ratio would it need?

4) How big would a class A area windmill need to be to keep our 1000 kg flywheel spinning.

get the spec sheets on the Rotary UPS, they usually have all that information and formula's  if not a salesman will be glad to either do the calculation or give you the formula. 

The big trick here is to store the wind energy mechanically. Take that thought as literally as making the actual windmill out of the flywheel. I guess I also want to know the drag a floating flywheel presents per liter of water displaced. It's like a boat only it has no water displacement. And my final question is about flywheels made out of water but lets get to that later.

a windmill is a flywheel, they try to reduce the mass of the blades so that is can start with slower wind speeds.  A  floating flywheel?  I believe that the weight loss to make it float vs weight to give to the system isn't worth it...   and that wasn't my idea..  no way I'd try that, or concrete

mgeups.com
http://upsci.com/UPS-rotary.htm
http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=37516&x=7
http://www.kstechnology.co.uk/rotary_ups_200.html
http://www.criticalpowergroup.com/html/rotary_ups___continuous_power_.html
http://www.kstechnology.co.uk/
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/5730/612

Very industrial, there nothing available for normal people? The whole market is empty? wiew? I hear they have power outages every year in places like Florida. But I can imagine a few other places where peoples luxury livings go without electricity every now and then.

Rotary UPS are only good for a few seconds, usually enough time to start a generator without having power interuption...  when designing a system it's cost vs tolerable power outage..  and cost of statuc ups vs a rotary ups..  rotary really doesn't come into play til your into the megawatt range, but for some applications as small as 400kva

in a consumer product,  less than 1% of houses have Generators, and .0001% of them have a need less than 5-10 minyutes of down time, and $100 USD at electronics store for a Battery UPS would cover the need for 99.99999% of that 0.0001% that need that kinda uptime

From a product point of view: As long as it has a windmill component we can put all the overunity machines in the flywheel we like, and no one will complain about it. But personally I would be interested in seeing a newman motor running on a dead battery spin up a flywheel. It would be cool to see how much mass such  motor can keep up to speed for next to no amps.

if a newman motor could start a big flywheel with little energy, there would be no need to use a flywheel

About David Hamel, you mention balancing the flywheel was a problem but I think a slight unbalance and a bit of freedom to wobble combined with a ring of repulsive magnets around the rim could actually make use of the wobble by bouncing it back inwards.

hamelarian aquamagnetic bearings

give it a try.. but that is alot of energy pushing on the structure to mount it...   

[rMuD]

rMuD,

Im not gona say that I do or do not know if Chas's flywheel is a working
concept.

However, I think its different than you explained it.

The idea is similar to people who Pull huge objects with wheels such
as trucks or planes - with only their strength.

Once the mass is moving, it takes less and less energy to move them.

Therefore, its like a mouse powering a car.    The tiny efficient engine,
with help from an intermediate mass (flywheel),  will be able to overcome
friction easier - and is able to power a generator with much more revs
per sec than should be possible without expending much more power.

The most frictional forces come from the pulleys and ratios.. which the
flywheel helps to keep in check.

While sure, there is energy being stored into the flywheel..  that does not
mean that is 'all' the excess energy.   

Again, not sure If im correct.  Just a theory.
   

mechanically they are neraly identical, except less pulley's which should make the Rotary UPS more effecient.. if not they wouldn't have evolved to be direct drive

it takes energy to "load" a flywheel.. and takes energy to keep a flywheel rotating in the real world as well..    what a  flywheel is good for is pulse loads..  it takes alot of energy to decelerate a mass that is much larger than the load...  but it's going to take at least that much energy to spin up that flywheel.. then energy to overcome the mechanical loss of keeping it spinning... but it's just over more time...

now I am sure this doesn't make a lot sense to you, because it falls under the same category as laying a mass on a machine to provide work via gravity, vs dropping it, or putting it on a slope and to provide work..   now that I understand more of where you are coming from with the hitting vs pushing..  I think someone else or I can explain the lack of 0 net gain in terms you can relate too..  but that is for another time..  I feel it's more important to go out for a beer

 

[tinu]

Hi all,

It?s been a long thread and, by now, it should be obvious that Campbell?s machine is not working. Not the slightest chance. Of course that there are some late-comers keeping discussing it and they?ll probably keep doing so for a while. But the main arguments were already posted.

I?d like to remind everyone that it was one of the most intense discussed topics over an interval of 48h into the last year or so. A real team effort. It certainly wouldn?t be as it was without the great contribution of Hum. Actually, besides everyone?s own thoughts, lessons learned and personal and conclusions, I find the MOST VALUABLE idea and finding posted also by Hum. It quotes:

If I were a strategist working for CIA, MIB, big oil, the PTB, etc., it would not take me long to suggest that the strategy of sending dozens of skeptics into arenas like this would be stupid and futile.  It could actually further the "progress of the science" if they were at all effective at truncating futile efforts.

Far more effective would be the placement of a few strategic leadership folks who would pose as avid enthusiasts and openly encourage every proposed idea no matter how easily it was proven unworkable by even simple inspection.  The hoards of sincere hopeful believers manipulated by a few chuckling false gurus getting rich pretending to carry the banner of free energy heroes,soldiers and martyrs.  Now you have an effective strategy for denigrating the whole field and assuring no progress.

Anyone insisting on critical thought would have to be silenced, banned, ridiculed and shouted down or frustrated into oblivion. The place would become so completely full of rabidly-pursued unworkable ideas and ultra-enthusiastic fervent replicators that anyone with a decent ability to think and reason abstractly would forget the whole idea of free energy after one visit! 

What better way to push potentially contributing thinking people away and to sourly discredit the whole free energy concept as being foolish?  The "mole skeptic" idea looks limp by comparison.

Next time anyone uses the "oil-man" accusation in response to a logical skeptical argument, think about that. 

Humbugger ~ I don't work for nobody ~ I ain't got no badges!

Hopefully one can prove me wrong and show us a better finding hereby posted.

Anyway, Hum may be a skeptic but he adds intellectual struggle, great discussions, humor and he helps keeping our legs on the ground.
He is a man of honor, I?d bet all my money on it. All that it takes is a request for him to leave. I suppose that it would have been more than enough. But the forum would lose valuable juice..

@ Stefan,
Banning Hum again is not only the greatest insult to his person but it goes beyond that.
You may be empowered to ban him, Stefan, as others may be empowered to take the OU.com domain from you and shut the whole thing down. Abusive? Yes, exactly my point.

So, I fully understand that running the business and keeping the spirit alive is not an easy task.
But as you say, there has to be a right ?balance? in doing it?
Although Hum may be called a skeptic, he added great value to the both sides of the balance.
And the skeptics here understand your position and support you, day by day.
Anyway, as seen from above quote, not skeptics are the real issue?

Please reconsider your decision about Hum.

Tx,
Tinu