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Overunity Machines Forum



Eldarion and Bruce's build of Bob's Energy Converter

Started by eldarion, July 27, 2007, 12:58:39 AM

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Bruce_TPU

#85
October 13, 2007, 10:20:44 PM
Quote from: eldarion on October 13, 2007, 06:30:42 PM
Hello all,

I just got off the phone with Bob a half hour or so ago.  He was very helpful! ;D  I now have a much better understanding of the energy converter technology...

From what we can tell, my output stages are not able to drive the coil properly, hence my lack of results  I have ordered, at his recommendation, a matched set of four IGBTs, part # MG400Q1US41(EP).  I have also ordered some UCC37322 MOSFET drivers to make absolutely certain that I have the correct waveforms into the IGBTs. ;)

I will post schematics of the new output driver design after I have finished and smoke-tested it!

Also, something else interesting.  The secondary outputs pure LMD, and cannot be used to close the loop without conversion from LMD back to TEM.  Where you should be getting TEM output is on the longitudinal pancake windings, and that should be DC and in overunity quantities (here on Earth, anyway :))

Eldarion


@ Eldarion,

That is very, very good news!  ;)  Identifying the problem is good news indeed.  You may want to post what you were using, compared to the new set of four IGBT's you just ordered and why the one set should work, while what you have, does not.  This may help some of the replicators reading this.  (and will also satisfy my own curiosity!  :)  )

Good job Eldarion, we look forward to Thor 1.2! 

Warm regards,
Bruce
1.  Lindsay's Stack TPU Posted Picture.  All Wound CCW  Collectors three turns and HORIZONTAL, not vertical.

2.  3 Tube amps, sending three frequency's, each having two signals, one in-phase & one inverted 180 deg, opposing signals in each collector (via control wires). 

3.  Collector is Magnetic Loop Antenna, made of lamp chord wire, wound flat.  Inside loop is antenna, outside loop is for output.  First collector is tuned via tuned tank, to the fundamental.  Second collector is tuned tank to the second harmonic (component).  Third collector is tuned tank to the third harmonic (component)  Frequency is determined by taking the circumference frequency, reducing the size by .88 inches.  Divide this frequency by 1000, and you have your second harmonic.  Divide this by 2 and you have your fundamental.  Multiply that by 3 and you have your third harmonic component.  Tune the collectors to each of these.  Input the fundamental and two modulation frequencies, made to create replicas of the fundamental, second harmonic and the third.

4.  The three frequency's circulating in the collectors, both in phase and inverted, begin to create hundreds of thousands of created frequency's, via intermodulation, that subtract to the fundamental and its harmonics.  This is called "Catalyst".

5.  The three AC PURE sine signals, travel through the amplification stage, Nonlinear, producing the second harmonic and third.  (distortion)

6.  These signals then travel the control coils, are rectified by a full wave bridge, and then sent into the output outer loop as all positive pulsed DC.  This then becomes the output and "collects" the current.

P.S.  The Kicks are harmonic distortion with passive intermodulation.  Can't see it without a spectrum analyzer, normally unless trained to see it on a scope.

Jdo300

#86
October 14, 2007, 12:12:36 AM
Hey Eldarion,

It's great to hear that you got your problem solved!! I'm excited to know that you were seeing some results from the high voltage that you applied to your coil as well!

I'm still working out the final pieces of my control circuit. I'm working out the details for a card that will measure the output voltage/current from the DC longitudinal windings to control the output from the coil. Once I finish with this, I'll be ready to make the PCB designs and have it built. You're doing excellent work man. Keep up the great work!

God Bless,
Jason O

eldarion

#87
October 14, 2007, 12:19:20 AM
Quote from: btentzer on October 13, 2007, 10:20:44 PM
@ Eldarion,

That is very, very good news!  ;)  Identifying the problem is good news indeed.  You may want to post what you were using, compared to the new set of four IGBT's you just ordered and why the one set should work, while what you have, does not.  This may help some of the replicators reading this.  (and will also satisfy my own curiosity!  :)  )

Good job Eldarion, we look forward to Thor 1.2! 

Warm regards,
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I had already posted the schematic for Thor 1.0's output stage on my controller thread here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2894.msg52205.html#msg52205
I will also be posting the schematic for the new Thor 1.1 output stage on that thread, but not before I smoke test it. ;)

Basically, it looks like the IRF510s I was using could not switch fast enough, thereby causing a tremendous loss of power and lots of ringing in the primaries, which completely destroyed the energy conversion process.  Bob has informed me that the output, when shorted, should be a flame-like discharge, even without the HV bias connected (just shorting the two secondary terminals together).  There should also be a choke on the +13.8V side of the primaries to prevent hash from getting into the power supply.  Note that this choke has to also allow some HF power through it in order to get power to the primaries, so throwing a massive 50 henry choke in there will completely destroy the effect. ;D

Thanks to Bob for taking the time to explain this stuff to me! :)

Oh, if anyone in this group would like to take advantage of my controller once everything has been finalized, I will be offering the control software for free to the members of this group...

Eldarion

EDIT:
Just realized this was posted while I was typing this reply...

Quote from: Jdo300 on October 14, 2007, 12:12:36 AM
Hey Eldarion,

It's great to hear that you got your problem solved!! I'm excited to know that you were seeing some results from the high voltage that you applied to your coil as well!

I'm still working out the final pieces of my control circuit. I'm working out the details for a card that will measure the output voltage/current from the DC longitudinal windings to control the output from the coil. Once I finish with this, I'll be ready to make the PCB designs and have it built. You're doing excellent work man. Keep up the great work!

God Bless,
Jason O

Thanks! ;D  I wish you well in your controller design!  (I will be doing a similar thing; measuring the longitudinal power and controlling the reaction with that information).

Also, a note to all.  Please, Please do NOT connect your scopes to the output, especially when the load is connected!!!  Bob had someone blow up a 75W bulb on the output with very little power on the input (it turned into a crude arc light for a while); just imagine what would have happened to his scope had it been connected! :o :-X  Besides, the secondary outputs pure longitudinal energy; your scope will not detect it.  Believe me, scoping everything is a very hard habit for EE types to break.  Just don't make it an expensive one, too. ;)
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."
-- Thomas Paine

Earl

#88
October 14, 2007, 06:12:36 AM
Thanks for the scope tip, I happen to be one of those EEs who scopes everything.

The IRF510 only has 100V breakdown, which is probably much too low.  It is avalanche rated so at something like 120V drain to source, it will avalanche and short drain to source.  This will happen shortly after turn-off as the coil voltage tries to shoot to many hundreds of Volts, even up to 1kV, assuming about 12 VDC supply.  An IRF820A / IRF830A / IRF840A would be a better candidate with 500V rating.  Depending of the back EMF, 800V or 1000V FETs might have to be used.   IGBT are good, but can be a little slow.  Do some Inet research on turning IGBTs on and off, they are not the same as MOSFETs.

Regards, Earl

PS, you were using a FET driver for the IRF510 weren't you?
"It is through science that we prove, but through intuition that we discover." - H. Poincare

"Most of all, start every day asking yourself what you will do today to make the world a better place to live in."  Mark Snoswell

"As we look ahead, we have an expression in Shell, which we like to use, and that is just as the Stone Age did not end for the lack of rocks, the oil and gas age will not end for the lack oil and gas, but rather technology will move us forward." John Hofmeister, president Shell Oil Company

eldarion

#89
October 14, 2007, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: Earl on October 14, 2007, 06:12:36 AM
Thanks for the scope tip, I happen to be one of those EEs who scopes everything.

The IRF510 only has 100V breakdown, which is probably much too low.  It is avalanche rated so at something like 120V drain to source, it will avalanche and short drain to source.  This will happen shortly after turn-off as the coil voltage tries to shoot to many hundreds of Volts, even up to 1kV, assuming about 12 VDC supply.  An IRF820A / IRF830A / IRF840A would be a better candidate with 500V rating.  Depending of the back EMF, 800V or 1000V FETs might have to be used.   IGBT are good, but can be a little slow.  Do some Inet research on turning IGBTs on and off, they are not the same as MOSFETs.

Regards, Earl

PS, you were using a FET driver for the IRF510 weren't you?

Hi Earl,

Yes, I was using a driver (specifically the MAX627) for the IRF510s.  When I designed the output circuit so long ago, I didn't have all the information from Bob, so I made guesses.  Turns out I derated the MOSFETs too far, going for switching time instead of voltage handling capability.

Bob has stated that these particular IGBTs can be driven by the UCC37322s, and furthermore that they are good up to 5MHz, so I think I am good there. ;D  Looking at the datasheet confirms that the worst-case rise/fall time is 0.5uS, which is about 2MHz, but that was measured at full load.  We will not be operating these things anywhere near full load, so they will switch much faster.

Eldarion
"The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheaply, we esteem too lightly; it is dearness only that gives everything its value."
-- Thomas Paine
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