no infinity

[brnbrade]

@vondesastre

When will we see prototypes small scale?

regards

[Super God]

I think that there has to be an infinity because dividing any number by zero yields an infinite value.

x/y=z

As y approaches zero, z approaches infinity

[pauldude000]

I think that there has to be an infinity because dividing any number by zero yields an infinite value.

x/y=z

As y approaches zero, z approaches infinity

That is interesting. However, if let us examine the truth of the statement by demonstrative logical example:

If true then 5/0 = infinity
If true then 3/0 = infinity
If true then 5 = 0 * infinity
If true then 3 = 0 * infinity

Therefore we start to see a problem, as both statements cannot be true. Which is the truth then 0 * infinity = 5, or 0 * infinity = 3?

Or are you stating that it is an equivalency thing..... which would yield 5 = 3, since 0 * infinity is equivalent to 0 * infinity ........

ALL division problems are falsifiable through built in mathematical functions.

For instance, multiplication can be falsified with addition

3 * 2 = 5 (falsifiable statement)
2 + 2 + 2 = 6 (equivalent function demonstrating first statement false. In this case addition.)

You notice that 2 added to 2 a total of 3 times, is to state the multiplication of 2 * 3. It is a different means of stating the SAME thing, but in long hand. It is solved by linear computation.

2 + 2 = 4
4 + 2 = 6

Let us examine this relationship to 5 = 0 * infinity

0 + 0 = 0
0 + 0 = 0
0 + 0 = 0
(do I need to go on? Even an infinite number of additions of 0 to 0 will ever reach anything but 0 .....)

Now, what is 0 * 5? Why it is 0!
What is 0 * 3? Again, it is 0!
What is -5 * 0? Yes 0!
what is .5 * 0? AGAIN 0!

NOW WHAT IS 0 * infinity? ....... 0 .......

Therefore, 5 = 0 * infinity states that 5 = 0 ..... Is that a balanced equation??

What it demonstrates is that infinity cannot correspond to any real number, since all built in mathematical falsification techniques merely do not matter to the adherents of the concept. The concept is prettier than the truth.

Truly, I challenge anyone to mathematically PROVE the mathematical concept of infinity mathematically, as I will state again "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".......... (All other truthfull mathematical concepts can do such.)

I can prove why x/y=z, can you? It will be an interesting debate at the very least for all!

Paul Andrulis

[Dingus Mungus]

pi, prime numbers, parallel postulate, and the best for last:
Take any positive or negitive number and divide it by 2, forever...
It'll never stop dividing. No matter how many times your try...

Untill you find an end to these "infinite" phenomenon its all theory.

You don't have to understand infinity to see its function.
~Dingus Mungus

http://primes.utm.edu/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate
http://www.1729.com/blog/ZeroDividedByZero.html
*** http://pi.ytmnd.com/ ***

[pauldude000]

pi, prime numbers, parallel postulate, and the best for last:
Take any positive or negitive number and divide it by 2, forever...
It'll never stop dividing. No matter how many times your try...

Untill you find an end to these "infinite" phenomenon its all theory.

You don't have to understand infinity to see its function.
~Dingus Mungus

Good points! Some of this I have dealt with already previously in this thread, but I will reiterate. Some of these are new arguments.

First, concerning PI, there is absolutely no proof that it is infinite. None whatsoever. We have not found the end of the progression, but that does not mean that at the ten thousandth or even millionth decimal point it does not end. If it ends, it it not by definition infinite. You see the problem?

Second, concerning parallel postulate, is it possible to have a warp in space time which will bring these two lines infinitely close, which is the definition of intersection? 

Lastly, the divide by 2 and prime number problems, of which the answer is the same. I stated to the effect previously that "infinity" is a derivation of the imagination, and only has relevance according to pure mathematics. For instance, you did not mention another of the same type, namely what is the largest number possible, of which the answer is non-sequiter, since you can envision the largest number you can envision, then just add 1.

Infinity is purely an abstract concept, with no reflection in reality by which we can judge the truth of the statement. Abstract concepts are the only statements made by the mouth of man which tend to be non-falsifiable. My challenge was made tounge in cheek, since even with "prime numbers" and the "divide by 2 rule", it would require more than your life span to prove the concept mathematically true, WHICH NO ONE HAS EVER DONE!  There is a point which you have to truthfully state you ASSUME but you do now KNOW.

Also, by definition  infinity is both the largest number possible, and has no end. These are actually two definitions which are incompatible, as EITHER it is the largest number possible (of which cannot be increased by any means), OR it has no end.

Yet, I can legitimately state mathematically x = 5 * infinity which increases the number falsifying the first definition.

I can also with equal mathematical legitimacy by currently accepted rules state x/0 = infinity, or x = 0 * infinity, which yields the only possible number for x in a self limited equation as x = 0, which means infinity is either 0 or 1 (0/0=0 practicle or 0/0=1 purely mathematical under x/x=1), which effectively puts a definitive limit to infinity, thereby falsifying the second definition.

Neither definition can be therefore true. Something is clearly wrong, since infinity is used as both variable and constant at the same time, and cannot fulfill the basic rules of valid mathematical functions in that any equation using infinity is by definition either unbalanced or self negating.

It exists my friend, only in our minds for those numbers which are too grand for us to comprehend, in a rather poorly formulated manner.

ALL THEORIES are falsifiable, and infinity itself is still but a theory.  The rules of falsification apply.

To mathematically prove anything, you have to use math, not other equally abstract and unfalsifiable concepts such as infinite progression such as primes, infinite division by 2, or infinite anything. These are all self referencing, when trying to prove infinity.

That is why this will never be proven MATHEMATICALLY, though it's mathematical useage is easily disproven mathematically , because the only means to prove infinity is abstract self-reference, which has never been stated as acceptedly valid as a means of proof for ANY theory.

To put this in perspective, I cannot prove the validity of a private theory by saying "because my theory says so". I have to demonstrate mathematical or observeable extraneous proof, and preferrably both in quantity, for the purpose of allowing others to mathematically and logically examine and determine its applicability to reality. (the principle of falsification)

I shall broaden the scope, and loosen the inherent restrictions, of the challenge. Prove infinity, by utilizing EITHER mathematics or observeable reality, with the clarification that your proof must not be self referencing in the manner described above.

I have read many posts here, and I think most are up to the challenge, though I truly do not think any will accomplish this. (Not because of intelligence, which many demonstrate in quantity from my observations, but due to my perceived inherent impossibility of the task.

PLEASE NOTE that I am not attacking nor insulting anyone. I am attempting to give you a concept upon which you may challenge both myself and yourselves as well, with some healthy mental debate.

TO WHAT PURPOSE? If infinity is truly not applicable to reality, then the various concepts based upon its inclusion (such as say the speed of light acceleration "barrier", etc...) are self falsified. It will improve science as a whole.

Paul Andrulis