Running an internal combustion engine?

[mikestocks2006]

So, would you say it's safe to run an engine on just hho with ss valves?

Alot of people insist on making engine modification, but if it isn't neccessary then to hell with it.

Hi folks, re: water in engine.
Keep in mind that the combustion byproducts of hydrocarbons (octane-C8H18 and oxygen) are mainly CO2 and H2O
There is also water vapor (humidity in the ambient air and sometimes very high in humid days)
An ICE is already exposed to H20 mostly in vapor form, inside the combustion chamber and also a combination of water vapor and condensing water in the exhaust system. There are also a number of additional chemical compounds produced, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides due to N2 in the atmosphere, other gasoline additives, detergents, and so on.

A more  carefull consideration should be in the area of increased temperatures and/or pressures involved if any, and possible Hydrogen embrittlement

Thanks

[IronHead]

@ "Super God" 
Lets just say I know that it is ok to do so and for many years as well.


@"mikestocks"
Hydrogen embrittlement has only been found in Pure Monoatomic Hydrogen  high pressurized type systems.
Heat has no time to transfer or migrate as the burn time is much to fast, HHO burn hot and fast but  is cooler to run .

[kewlhead]

SuperBAT TVT Metal Treatment Additive and Fuel System Treatment products
are available by calling (800) 891-1188.  This is an old article but a search will still provide some more info  for anyone concearned about water in ther engine.I havent tried but since the topic came thought I'd look a bit.

[mikestocks2006]

@ "Super God" 
Lets just say I know that it is ok to do so and for many years as well.


@"mikestocks"
Hydrogen embrittlement has only been found in Pure Monoatomic Hydrogen  high pressurized type systems.
Heat has no time to transfer or migrate as the burn time is much to fast, HHO burn hot and fast but  is cooler to run .

Hi Ironhead,
Do you have a link re:"Hydrogen embrittlement has only been found in Pure Monoatomic Hydrogen  high pressurized type systems"
I'm interested in the "only found" remark.
If I recall from the ole materials science courses and also found here:
Hydrogen embrittlement
Of particular concern is a phenomenon unique to hydrogen gas. Because of its small size, H2 can be absorbed into the metallic lattice of steel, where certain impurities such as titanium cause it to dissociate into atomic hydrogen. Atomic hydrogen, in turn, will form anionic compounds around the edges of microcracks and voids, which facilitates their propagation. [3]The results of hydrogen infiltration into steel are shown in the graph below.

http://www.princeton.edu/~chm333/2004/Hydrogen/Images/embrittlement.JPG
The yield and fracture stress for a steel sample are shown to decrease with increasing hydrogen concentrations.
Source: Schvachko, V.I.
Hydrogen embrittlement prevents the use of current natural gas pipelines and other vessels from serving as hydrogen conduits, because a special coating may often be needed to prevent structural failure in the long-term from embrittlement.
Sources:

[1] "Support Facilities for Hydrogen Fueled Vehicles Conceptual Design and Cost Analysis Study." California Fuel Cell Partnership.

[2] Professor Frederick Dryer, Princeton University, personal conversation. 15 Nov 2004.

[3] Shvachko, V.I. "Micromechanical Aspects of Reversible Hydrodgen Embrittlement" Materials Science, Vol. 36, No. 4, 2000.



Not only atomic but also molecular Hydrogen has the potential to cause problems. Many refs out there.

Also, what is HHO ? what kind of Hydrogen does it have? Atomic? Molecular? Or?

It?s not clear what the concentration of gas(es) or pressures involved are, but the pressures need to be at least comparable to regular combustion chamber pressures in order to achieve similar engine performance.

Re: burn time,
If I recall correctly, the flame propagation speed for pure hydrogen is faster that that of hydrocarbons, but what is the flame propagation to a full burn of HHO? What else is in the mixture of gases going into the combustion chamber? What is the exact chemical reaction taking place and so on.
The hot pressurized gases are touching the walls and for the same amount of time as the regular octane burn. The time of contact is the same for the same rpm etc.

Anyway it may not be an overwhelming problem in the big picture, but it would be better to have some metrics and tests to confirm.

Just some points to consider in designing the system.

Thanks

[Super God]

So, where would the best spot be for running hho into an engine?  The intake manifold?  I was thinking about using that spot.  Hopefully I can turn my car into a hydrogen/gasoline hybrid car.