need help with wikipedia 11 September liars

[chadj2]

I agree with you topgunner. I do not want to see ppl banned just because they do not agree with me. Especially if we can have an intelligent exchange. Maybe I can learn to see something from a new perspective. Also, I enjoy talking to Neocons and trying to understand their perspective.

[shruggedatlas]

I agree with you topgunner. I do not want to see ppl banned just because they do not agree with me. Especially if we can have an intelligent exchange. Maybe I can learn to see something from a new perspective. Also, I enjoy talking to Neocons and trying to understand their perspective.

I am not even sure what  Neocon is exactly, but knowing what I know now, there is no way I would have supported the war in Iraq.  If we could really have done it all in a year and had a stable government by now, I would feel different, but seeing the way things are, it is pretty obvious the war was a big mistake.  Do keep in mind that Saddam was a terrible tyrant, using torture and mass fear to keep the populace in line, so any opposition to the war in Iraq necessarily entails leaving him and his sons in power.  As much as the current situation sucks and is not worth the American lives spent (no compelling U.S. security interest), people do tend to conveniently ignore the previous state of affairs.

But to address some of your points.  You seem to think that the Iraq war was sold as a revenge war to the public.  This is not what happened.  The reason for going into Iraq was WMDs, at least that is how it was sold.  The Afghanistan attack was the one that was directly justified by 9/11.  True, some links were attempted, placing Al Queda in Iraq during certain times, but intelligence on this was sketchy and that alone would not have justified the war, and that is why the WMD/weapon inspector issue was stressed to no end.  You must recall this.  So based on this, we must give some allowance that if the Iraq war is what the administration wanted, there were other ways go about it.  Heck, if you are going to stage a 9/11, why not have Iraqis in the pilots' seats?  How does having Saudi Al Queda members there help your case to go to war with Iraq?  Look at how tenuous the connection between 9/11 and Iraq was at the time we invaded and how hard the administration had to play up the WMD angle.  Surely, if it was planned from the get go, it would have been planned much better.

Regarding benefit to the terrorists, it is quite clear.  They provoked America into acting aggressively on the world stage, and this has brought Al Queda into the spotlight as the Muslim resistance force.  Now, Muslim sentiment toward America around the world is clearly negative, and more money is flowing into the pockets of Al Queda from various sources, and more volunteers are joining the ranks.  If you are going to play "follow the money" with american contractors and oil companies, it is hypocritical not to do the same with the other side.

Lastly, do think about the accusations you are making about the administration and if these were true, what other things you would expect to logically occur.  I believe you are focusing too narrowly on the evidence related to 9/11 and ignoring other things that should logically be happening, if your theory was true.  For example, let's say the administration is as evil and corrupt as you say and is willing to manufacture whatever evidence it needs to.  Do you recall what a tremendous embarrassment it was (and still is!) when no WMDs were found?  For someone who can engineer 9/11 and get away with it, do you think it would be hard to manufacture evidence of WMDs?  Why did this not happen?  Nothing like uncovering nuclear materials (or better, a nuclear suitcase bomb stolen from the Russians) to have everyone say, "Well this war is a quagmire, but I am glad we went in there, or Saddam would have been threatening us with nukes soon.  All of New York could have been a goner.  This has all been worth it."

Look, I guess my point is that you can lose yourself in 9/11 conspiracy evidence if you want to.  For every point I make, you can trot out something that somehow points back to the government, and this discussion will never end.  You obviously want to believe it, and so you will naturally give more weight to evidence that supports your position.  But just try to think of the big picture and how things would really play out, if what you are saying is true. I think if you look at it honestly, you will find some big inconsistencies.

And hey, having some credible witnesses testifying to the conspiracy would be helpful too. The circumstatial evidence can be interpreted multiple ways, as has been demonstrated, so you really need to get some people to talk.

[Danner]

Were any of you watching tv like I was that day?  Did you not see the second plane hit the tower on live tv?  And subsequently the buildings collapse at that point (not from the bottom).  If you believe CNN and the other liberal news channels were part of the conspiracy there is no hope for you. 

Remember, when you think of an alternative to war, peace is often not an option, only slavery or death.  If the extremists gain power, those are the only two options they will give you.. to either convert (slavery to their faith) or die.  You know which one I will choose.

Danner
formerly Sgt. USMC

[gaby de wilde]

Were any of you watching tv like I was that day?  Did you not see the second plane hit the tower on live tv?  And subsequently the buildings collapse at that point (not from the bottom).  If you believe CNN and the other liberal news channels were part of the conspiracy there is no hope for you. 

Oh yeah sure,

"I must take everything the TV says as the DIVINE TRUTH or I am hopeless"

A total bullshit statement.

Rupert Murdock owns the news. Over a hundred  cable networks, practically all US media, hundreds of newspapers. So you might as well say Ruppie is GOD!!!!

HALLELUJAH CRACKPOT!!

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7798.htm

[gaby de wilde]

@Stefan,

you should just ban war apologists if they don't want to listen.

Or you end up with their paid2spam on your site.

Or did this spamer read one post written here?

I most certainly don't think so.

He is here to wreak my topic.

Sure, ban everyone that does not agree with the conspiracy "theories" and "opinions" of others.

You are talking bullshit,

Please explain your version of what happened.

I demand evidence of all of it, your opinion BS will not do.