Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[OUmon]

...My favorite is the transmission of power through one wire (there is no ground point) --- enough to light 10 or more LED's over 20 feet away. Intelligent, educated people I know just stand there and stare and they cannot wrap there mind around how one would do such a thing---it is "unconventional" if not impossible for them, I however have no problem with this it is quite conventional and its operation obvious...

That's a good analogy. So would you care to share with us the explanation for the LED observation?

[hoptoad]

What kind of RPM are you talking about?

Approximately 6,000 RPM (High speed DC motor driver)

Cheers

[LarryC]

@All testers,

I found some interesting differences between the triac and the variac controllers:

1. The acceleration had similar rpm increase (50 - 100), but 3 times as fast with the variac, not brutal, but closer to Thane's original demos.

2. With the triac there was very little deceleration or none at all after un-shorting. The variac decelerates to the original speed after shorting.

3. The motor rpm's are easier to stabilize for testing.

These test were done with the 1/8 neo cupped. I'll try adding the 1/4 neos for my next testing.


Regards, Larry

[aether22]

I think I ramble a bit more more than usual in this post, but here goes...

After spending a night of relative depression (well directionless and confused might be a better closer) I thought...

I can discount (without knowing the details, the details could trash my theory) Thanes observed need for HV coils, I can argue that if you have enough wire you get a low current density/low resistance path and that is required to get the phase angle near to the low lenz 180 phase, so maybe my results of yesterday trash most/all of Thanes solid steel core results.

But wait wait wait wait, I thought, this doesn't make ANY sense, something's fishy.

Thane has experimented the hell outta this shit (excuse my french) and he never got acceleration with a single solid core coil in isolation.

If all of this is a straight forward effect of reducing core losses then WHY was Thane UNABLE to get acceleration with the generator isolated? (with a single core)

That makes no sense!

So I have an alternate theory, and that is that my results yesterday with the 2mm wire, and multistrand, and shorted HCC that they are all in fact Thanes effect, and so may Steve's generator he made based off that patent.
Because for all we know shorting causing a net reduction of losses may in fact be a total fiction and almost every occurrence including Steve's motor might be using Thanes effect in reality.

And the difference as to why Thane needs many turns and Steve and I can get away with few?
Different rotors, my theory is that Thanes rotor is actually very poor at getting aether into the motor, it is a far from optimal design, I can tell that from the one I have.
My rotor has a brush that squeezes to the shaft, I think my rotor is an aetheric super highway and Thanes is a little narrow alley, he needs more turns to push through.

The other possible reason is that to an extent acceleration may require reduction of Lenz force to be noticeable and reduction of Lenz force for a shorted coil would be possible based on my figuring if a very very low resistance path was offered and low resistance means not actually fewer turns but lower current density which is achieved by increasing the number of turns or the gauge of the wire. This theory basically assumes Thane never used thick enough wire in his lower turn coils, in other words he needed more copper and he only looked at supplying that by increasing the number of turns.  (The MOT operation in Thanes vid can be explained by enough flux leaving the core before the HV coil gets to it, more flux requires more copper. The HV and HC coils worked the way they did due to their position. This theory can't exolain Rons results though)

Sorry you guys know I have a tendency to run long.
So the point is that if Thane didn't get acceleration when he used isolation (my acceleration with isolation can be explained as all my tests fell far outside of Thanes conditions) even if Thane is doubtful of the results now it really does not seem that he nor anyone can explain why at any speed he could only get the acceleration with a single coil with a full steel shaft so my results MUST be real!

My results must be real because if they aren't real then Thane's solid core results can't be real (too similar for Thane not to be getting the same artifact), If they were not real then how the HELL could Thane have not noticed acceleration when he shorted a solid steel rod with his rotor in isolation? And that would also mean that all early results are bunk and Thane later tripped over a real effect that resembled the 'fake' one with the solid cores.

So really there are only 2 possibilities from here.
Either ALL of Thanes results with solid steel cores were in fact a MUNDANE artifact brake effect (causing cheering from the OU/PB spook)  and he just tripped over a real effect later or pretty much ALL of the acceleration from shorting coils on solid steel are valid, and if they are then we can do away with any idea that many turn turns are always required.

Since Thane and others have gone on since those experiments to demo things far beyond any possibility of a conventional explanation I say it makes FAR more sense to assume that all the acceleration is really Thanes effect and that that the belief that shorting coils can cause acceleration due to a net reduction of losses is in almost every case busted. (admittedly at this point only busted by assuming Thane's solid core results are real, if the artifact were real that experiment would be a breeding ground for it)

This now makes doing the pulley experiment high on my list of things to do.
The only problem is that in Thanes view the acceleration should occur with Pulley isolation as he no longer believes in his own results, and from my new perspective if I get the effect with pulley isolation I will have busted many of Thanes results which is not what I am going for. (of course Thanes opinion would be unchanged)
If I do end up busting most of Thanes solid core results then I will have to change tac and try and replicate the totally unassailible 'faster rpm with coils present and shorted than absent' since there is no way that can be discounted (whatever core types were used) besides assuming poor work from Thane which The PB's of this world will automatically assume but I won't ever. (not that PB acts anything like a real person with a single view, in fact it might not be a single person)

So I am now much happier but with a real feeling of caution, because if the pulley test gives acceleration I am going to have generated evidence against the effect not for it, and I would have to accept that acceleration with shorting can be an artifact than can explain many of the less bulletproof experiments and that yet in the whole mess there is still a real effect waiting to be separated from the confusion.

[aether22]

@All testers,

I found some interesting differences between the triac and the variac controllers:

1. The acceleration had similar rpm increase (50 - 100), but 3 times as fast with the variac, not brutal, but closer to Thane's original demos.

2. With the triac there was very little deceleration or none at all after un-shorting. The variac decelerates to the original speed after shorting.

3. The motor rpm's are easier to stabilize for testing.

These test were done with the 1/8 neo cupped. I'll try adding the 1/4 neos for my next testing.


Regards, Larry

All good Larry but while I don't have the comparison so much of that might be true there are differences between your TRIAC and mine, when I open the circuit I get deceleration. Maybe your triac has poor snubber action.

Maybe I do need to look at a decent variac.