Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[OUman]

ATTACHMNET: Test Data May 4th, 2008 - Full Speed Test
Here is a version of the table with the efficiencies calculated:

WOW! YOU CERTAINLY WENT THROUGH AN AWFUL LOT OF TROUBLE TO SHOW 52,000 PEOPLE HOW IGNORANT YOU ARE AND THAT YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO CALCULATE EFFICIENCIES?

<sigh>

BTW, it's 52,000 views, not 52,000 people - which is not the same thing at all. Still, an impressive number compared to the views on other threads - and largely, I think, because of this entertaining debate.

[JustMe]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. The false assumption that's being made is that the amount of heat generated in the system is the same in those two cases. In fact, it's clearly not the same because the coil connections have been changed. In the so-called "no load" condition, 130W of heat is being dissipated in the system (motor + generator), and in the particular "loaded" condition cited, only 122.3W of heat is being generated. That's where the 7.7W comes from. It's not "excess power". No amount of upper-case ranting will change that.

I call unsubstantiated counter-claim!

I LIKE my new pseudoskeptic dictionary.

Kidding aside, this sounds like something you just made up on the assumption that it must add up to 130W, so it does.  I think if the philosophical shoe was on the other theoretical foot, you wouldn't let this fly without more substance.

And even if it is a reduction in losses, is that normal? I think what I mostly don't understand with you is that you seem to be operating from the assumption that no matter what the explanation for this is, it will have no application or benefit. That seems both unreasonably pessimistic and premature.

[JustMe]

Thane, one thing I wondered about was the fact that we do expect an induction motor going faster to use less power, and the motor was going slightly faster with the HV coils alone.  (I think it's really cool that I've learned these new bits of things all because of this!) While it seems unlikely this would account for the entire difference, it does create some muddiness.  What do you think about hoptoad's suggestion about the DC motor for these specific high speed tests? What might that tell us that we don't already know now?

[LarryC]

OK, now we're getting somewhere. The false assumption that's being made is that the amount of heat generated in the system is the same in those two cases. In fact, it's clearly not the same because the coil connections have been changed. In the so-called "no load" condition, 130W of heat is being dissipated in the system (motor + generator), and in the particular "loaded" condition cited, only 122.3W of heat is being generated. That's where the 7.7W comes from. It's not "excess power". No amount of upper-case ranting will change that.

What kind of backwards logic is that? What part of POWER IN IS THE SAME,
RPM IS THE SAME do you not understand? The input from the grid is still 130W to allow the motor to turn it's PHYSICAL LOAD  (rotor) at the same RPM. Same heat, smeat, whatever. 

If it were possible to feed the 7.7W back to the grid. Then the utility company would only charge us for 122.3W while using 130W. Whoa   Now you're generating 130W of heat using 122.3W.

This point cannot be made any simpler. Why not help by doing your own testing to explain this observation or do you just enjoy hiding and throwing rocks?

[hoptoad]

What do you think about hoptoad's suggestion about the DC motor for these specific high speed tests? What might that tell us that we don't already know now?

First it will tell you that the effect is not dependant on the prime mover type. Secondly, if you use higher speeds and more magnets (to increase frequency), you will find that the effect will occur in a wider range of impedance from high (not too high) to lower. At this stage, you can only take my word for it, but my own apparatus had 8 very low impedance coils (only 90 turns of 0.63mm wire per coil) in series. The cores were hollow, comprising a tiny fraction of the inductive material that Thane is using,  and, as such, presented a very low inductance (and hence inductive reactance) capability.
Total DC resistance of all eight coils in series was less than 3 ohms.

My results show that HV coils (high impedance) and induction motors are not critical requirements for demonstrating the effect.

At peak electrical O/P, I had approximately 18 watts alternator O/P  for  24 Watts prime mover I/P, with the acceleration effect starting at approximately 16 watts O/P.  At S/C, the motor used the same input power as it did at O/C, and also ran at the same rpm, (approx 6000 rpm), with 4 magnet pairs giving a sine frequency of 24000 cycles per minute, which translates to 400 hz.

Cheers all