My Bessler Quest

[Dgraphic911]

from p-motion

Even if this does not work, that it would use less energy to move a weight back to it's starting position would be important.
Although it seems to be a simple design, no one in here can calculate it's potential to develop spin.

I have calculated it, the same way you should, it is a VERY< VERY SIMPLE concept to model in the real world and feel how it react. YOU will be very surprised at what your simple models does. Its easy  to dismiss that and say well if i make it more complicated then it will act differently, (as in your second picture that you show us)

But the first one that we must be smart enough to understand before we try and understand the second one. I believe it acts unlike you expect it to.


A pendulum or lever offset from the axle and meant to swing over the axle to create rotational torque is a very strong force and its very easy to assume that this  force with be stron enought to overcome all other forces. Especially when we CANNOT calculate the forces that are imagined.

Your lever idea shows some merit, but the reason you find trouble getting alot of attention appears from my simple uneducated opinon to be that you need to study the simple motion and understand that before,
1. telling others they can't
2. saying if we do that it will then make sense to us, maybe we do and the time it would take to explain it to you would be to much.



@alex

I am sorry that your post got hijacked by another, it seems to be par for the course when someone wants attention. I would not respond and continue the encouragment of someone inside someone elses post if it wasn't to continue discussion.
If my words become worthless let me know and i will exit.

I will try and quickly make a model of p-motion example that we should al get, i will take a shot at its moment of inertia and then at its area of rest. but he has left out to many variables. I'll explain when i have the pictures.

[erickdt]

I strongly recommend that these sorts of concepts be modelled and tested with software such as WM2D before they are heralded as the answer for a gravity powered device. It will become quite apparent quite quickly what does and doesn't work.

[Dgraphic911]

wm2d

[Alexioco]

from p-motion

Even if this does not work, that it would use less energy to move a weight back to it's starting position would be important.
Although it seems to be a simple design, no one in here can calculate it's potential to develop spin.

I have calculated it, the same way you should, it is a VERY< VERY SIMPLE concept to model in the real world and feel how it react. YOU will be very surprised at what your simple models does. Its easy  to dismiss that and say well if i make it more complicated then it will act differently, (as in your second picture that you show us)

But the first one that we must be smart enough to understand before we try and understand the second one. I believe it acts unlike you expect it to.


A pendulum or lever offset from the axle and meant to swing over the axle to create rotational torque is a very strong force and its very easy to assume that this  force with be stron enought to overcome all other forces. Especially when we CANNOT calculate the forces that are imagined.

Your lever idea shows some merit, but the reason you find trouble getting alot of attention appears from my simple uneducated opinon to be that you need to study the simple motion and understand that before,
1. telling others they can't
2. saying if we do that it will then make sense to us, maybe we do and the time it would take to explain it to you would be to much.



@alex

I am sorry that your post got hijacked by another, it seems to be par for the course when someone wants attention. I would not respond and continue the encouragment of someone inside someone elses post if it wasn't to continue discussion.
If my words become worthless let me know and i will exit.

I will try and quickly make a model of p-motion example that we should al get, i will take a shot at its moment of inertia and then at its area of rest. but he has left out to many variables. I'll explain when i have the pictures.

Its alright, no problem...
I dont want to say to much yet but the other night I could not sleep beause I think I may have found a workign wheel which could be built in a matter of hours (for me anyway) I will post it when I have built it, just incase it does not work, lol you know hwo it is...
but for now, yeah I think the above ideas are good, I dont quite understand them...

[erickdt]

I strongly recommend that these sorts of concepts be modelled and tested with software such as WM2D before they are heralded as the answer for a gravity powered device. It will become quite apparent quite quickly what does and doesn't work.

@ Eric,
I think this idea is simple enough that common sense would be sufficient.
After all, the idea of an over balanced wheel (in this caes, an arm) is that it will rotate in the direction of the weight furthest from the center.
Has this changed ? If not, then am not sure why this would not work.
Bessler might have done something like this first before going on to build his wheels. If so, then he probably destroyed a lot of his work as he did not value it much. Could be he wanted more of a challenge.

There's a saying that common sense isn't very common. This idea certainly applies to the problem of a gravity powered device. Time and time again devices both real and simulated have performed very differently from how I had imagined and I am a design engineer, someone who theoretically has more than common knowledge of these things. For example: it seems logical to think the the wheel as you've described it will turn towards the side where the weight is the farthest from the axis this however is not the case. In fact, for whatever reason it turns in the other direction...