Repelling "Fan" theory for a magnet motor

[utilitarian]

She had constructed a pinwheel shaped "fan" of flat magnets, and introduced a fairly large rod magnet in front of the pinwheel, The magnet pinwheel spun like crazy.

I totally believe this story, but alone, it is not very promising.  Not trying to put a damper on things, but it is very easy to get magnets to move while holding something in front of them with your hands.  The motion of your body, even though minor, is what creates motion in the magnets.  As soon as you fasten down the rod or whatever it is that was introduced, motion stops.

[Dact]

Hmmmmm,
ok I have investigated a bit, let's see what I found.

* I made my model without setting any force field and putting out the gravity.
* I set electrostatics on to simulate magnets.
* I put a magnet near the fan. Depending on the position of this magnet the system works or not.
* All is made with standard materials in the program.
* Error metrics are minimized in this model to make it more accuracy than standard accuracy in the program. There seems to be no gliches like subit forces made by error metrics.*
* The system accelerates by itself reaching a terminal velocity depending on air resistance (what is set to 0.3). The system works with higher values.

What do you think? A bit strange, no?

Mandatory picture and model

xnonix,

Very intriguing. I agree, a bit strange! But not impossible. Your .WM2D file, even though you turned off the external forces, produced almost the same force vectors as my original model. Maybe it's because it's a 2d program, I don't know. A really good 3d program is really needed to explore this phenomena further.

BTW, I thank you for the credits in the program, but the model is mine. Taking nothing away from nightlife, as it was he who persuaded me to post in the first place. He has an equally intriguing idea, but I needed to set the record straight. The WM2D file was mine, and as such, am
responsible, whether it be criticism or not.

If you would, I implore all readers of this subject to bear with me for just a bit to hear me out on some observations I have made over the years. I am not a graduate of any university or college. I did attend college for a year before leaving for the U.S. Air Force after one year during the Vietnam War, but I have had no further formal training in physics since then. I have, however, worked in the security and and alarm industry for almost 30 years now. For many years, I installed and serviced commercial and residential burglar alarm systems, which of course meant utilizing small window and door magnets for the sensors. Too get straight to the point, many of these magnets over the years would become weak, and have to be replaced, after causing false alarms because of their decreased effect on the opposing reed switch. How did I know they needed replaced? Because they became lighter in weight! Now, I know many are now getting ready to change forums, but please hear me out.
Most of the magnets I noticed that seemed to be lighter had been in place for over 20 years. Has anyone out there weighed a brand new magnet, set it aside for 20 years, and then reweigh it? I didn't, but I contend that there was a difference in weight between the old one and a new replacement, which was noticeable, just in juggling each in both hands. Why is this important? I think that is obvious. If true, it means that mass has disappeared, and turned into what? According to Einstein, it could only be energy. Not a classical force, but energy.

Just wanted to throw this out for those whose training is much greater than mine, and whom may possess the modern instrumentation to prove or disprove it.

Please allow me to make one final observation. i just want to stress that the model I prosed was based on a real, though dated, observation. However, the dynamics are the same. Think about it! A single cylindrical magnet, approaching at 90 degrees to a "fan" of equal, fan arrayed flat magnets. The forces upon all flat magnets should theoretically be the same, causing a repulsion equally against all magnets in the "fan", just as the wind against a windmill. The opposite poles would seem to be very insignificant as far as "cancellation" goes. After years of working with magnets, feeling all the forces against a variety of materials, I just feel it! Not very scientific, maybe, but POSSIBLE!

Thank you,

Dact

[Dact]

I totally believe this story, but alone, it is not very promising.  Not trying to put a damper on things, but it is very easy to get magnets to move while holding something in front of them with your hands.  The motion of your body, even though minor, is what creates motion in the magnets.  As soon as you fasten down the rod or whatever it is that was introduced, motion stops.

Thanks for the response!. I totally agree with you on your premise of moving a magnet in to the proximity of a like-poled magnet. As long as you keep moving the held magnet, the other will continue to move. No quarrels here. BUT, if you have a "fan" array, with the fan at, say 45 degrees to the "held" magnet, then you have now transferred the energy from "0" degrees, relevant to the 'held" magnet, to a position of 90 degrees in a circular, or rotary, array which will now no longer require the "held" magnet to move any further to achieve the continuous force necessary to keep the array spinning. Instead of your hand having to keep moving, the perpendicular, spinning "array" will now disperse the excess energy.

Simply put, If you place two, like poles next to each other, the potential energy is there almost forever, until either one is finally released.

This is the best I can do to try to explain this theory. I have not yet built a model, due to a severe herniated disc I'm dealing with, but I hope to soon. I please invite anyone else to do so with my encouragement.

Good luck,

Dact

[xnonix]

Sorry Dact, I missread your first post and i didn't get it right. English is not my first language. Sorry. 
The model and original idea was from Dact, and I will change it in the next mods of the idea I will release.

xnonix

[Creativity]

Please allow me to make one final observation. i just want to stress that the model I prosed was based on a real, though dated, observation. However, the dynamics are the same. Think about it! A single cylindrical magnet, approaching at 90 degrees to a "fan" of equal, fan arrayed flat magnets. The forces upon all flat magnets should theoretically be the same, causing a repulsion equally against all magnets in the "fan", just as the wind against a windmill. The opposite poles would seem to be very insignificant as far as "cancellation" goes. After years of working with magnets, feeling all the forces against a variety of materials, I just feel it! Not very scientific, maybe, but POSSIBLE!

Thank you,

Dact

Hey Dact,
wind fan works on different principe.It is a force of air molecules hitting the fan blade and bouncing off ,that produce the reaction force on a fan blade(direction opposite to bounced off air molecule).With approaching front of a fan with a magnet,u will only get is spinning if u have any fraction of force in the parallel plane of fan(perpendiculair to its axis).It is more like a normal fan,that u want to get spinning by placing it with its face to the ground,hoping that gravity will pull the blades(and it does) and make the fan to spin(but it won't).
There is simply no force in the direction of spinning(perpendiculair to the fan shaft)...

is this what u r proposing?

If u want to set the main magnet under the slight angle u will have fan blades that are in stronger field(oposing to the movement because they have to overcome field strength to come closer to the main magnet) and the one who are in weaker field(making the movement ).



Nice idea would be to use some magnetic particles to accelerate in magnet field (magnet behid the fan) and hitting the blades on the way to the magnet.it would work like a wind fan.Now if we could get them out of the field and place  back in front of a fan,it could work for ever.But we still have no magnet shielding :|