The One Million Dollar HHO Challenge is launched

[xjet]

This one but its not in the car stage yet :http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5024.520.html

The idea is to upgrade the car ignite system to burn water instead of gaz directly in the cylinder using plasma from the spark plug.

Now this is something I have researched and I have to say that Stan Meyer was nothing but a scammer, indeed he was found guilty of fraud (and no this wasn't a conspiracy either).

The energy required to dissociate the atoms of a water molecule in this way is still more than the energy recovered by recombining them back into water.

This is a dead-end, unless you believe that the laws of thermodynamics are easily broken.

If you guys really want to look at how over-unity production *might* be possible then you've got to stop working in a world of Newtonian physics where the laws of thermodynamics will thwart your every move.

Perhaps the only chance there is of some form of over-unity is where you rely on quantum effects.  Unfortunately, quantum effects are (by their very definition) so small as to be a totally impractical source of energy at this stage of our technological development and our understanding in this field is very much in its infancy.

At some stage in the future, it may well be possible that we will harness some aspect of quantum mechanics as a source of energy but it's not going to be done on a kitchen-table using tools and techniques that are constrained by Newtonian physics.

By all means, experiment, enjoy, learn -- but please remember that nobody (including far greater minds with far greater learning, understanding and resources) has yet to thwart the laws of thermodynamics and the days when earth-shattering scientific breakthroughs were made in a garage workshop are (unfortunately) long-gone.

Even if you've got your own Large Hadron Collider you'll still be no better off, unless you've also got an intimate understanding of what you're doing, what you're trying to achieve and what you're seeing in the data returned.

Neither magnets, nor fat sparks, nor jamjars filled with water and baking soda are going to produce any unexpected or unexplained results.  Even Ponns and Fleischman made the mistake of thinking that a simple electrolysis-like device could change the world - but they simply wanted to believe so bad that it affected the quality of their science.  Just wishing it were so won't make it so.

[0ne]

If you guys really want to look at how over-unity production *might* be possible then you've got to stop working in a world of Newtonian physics where the laws of thermodynamics will thwart your every move.

What does using water to get a 25% increase in gas mileage have anything to do with "overunity"?

No one is claiming "free energy"...

Look at your post:

I'm the guy who posted the HHO Scam video to YouTube (I'm sure most of you have already seen it).

This posting is just to let you know that I've organized a one million dollar prize for the first person who can use one of these HHO setups to consistently produce an improvement in fuel efficiency of 25% or more without causing engine damage.

The details are on the website referred to in the video.

It is now time for those who are making such bold claims to step up to the base and play ball!

It doesn't say anything about overunity! You are asking for a 25% increase in fuel efficiency..... That's a whole different ballgame that you already lost!

You sir, are a fool!

[xjet]

xjet,

You must be a complete idiot.

Incorrect, I believe there are parts of me that are missing.

Everyone knows standard cars can run off of Hydrogen. They did a Mythbusters episode on it.

Very true -- I saw that episode.  They had a *huge* hydrogen tank and a tube fed into the carburetor with quite a significant rate of flow.

And strangely enough, when they tried to run the car from an electrolysis cell it wouldn't even fire.  Or did you fall asleep before that part of the very same episode?

Everyone knows electrolysis makes hydrogen, and depending on how well you make the cell, you can mix that with your air intake, and you up your mileage.

Sigh.  I would have thought that at least some of those here might have had the most rudimentary understanding of the laws of thermodynamics and energy conservation but clearly this most basic concept of physics is clearly way over your head.

Go to my website and read the very simple math that shows the folly of your suggestion:

http://aardvark.co.nz/hho_scam.shtml

If you can follow the simple math, you'll understand why it's not possible to recover the energy it took to create that hydrogen by electrolysis but here's a simple summary for you:

Take 1 unit of mechanical energy from the car's engine (used to drive the alternator).

Multiply that by the efficiency of the alternator (0.65)  = 0.65 units of energy

Now use that energy to run an electrolysis cell and split the water into H2/O2.  This has an efficiency of probably around 0.60 so now our original unit of energy is just: 0.39 units.

Now use that hydrogen in the car's engine to create power - remembering that an internal combustion engine has an efficiency of 0.24 or so.  Now you have recovered just 0.0936 (less than 10%) of the energy you used.  Such a system is 90% *inefficient*.

You already lost your money in scientific theory!!!

I think you have no idea of the science involved in such things.

LOL idiot!

Ah, now there's no arguing against the power of your magnificent intellect :-)

There are, as we speak, 1000's of tracker trailer 16 wheeler diesel trucks running hydrogen "boosters".

And there are also thousands running magnetic fuel savers, intake turbulators and a raft of other bugus fuel-saver devices.  Just because people are stupid enough to use them doesn't mean they work.

Heard of The Emperor's New Clothes?

All gas engines need oxygen to run! All gas engines need to mix air/fuel to run! Now add some hydrogen to the air/fuel mixture and you have less gas mileage!

Only if you didn't add more load to the engine than you returned as fuel - which *isn't* the case with these hydrogen electrolysis cells (as I proved with my math above).

Did you know that air that is injected in gas engines contains WATER?! It's called humidity. Car's deal with it all the time.

No, it's called water vapor, humidity is the ratio of actual water vapor to maximum water vapor before condensation occurs.  Even if you don't understand the science, at least get the terminology right.

Running a hydrogen booster is like running your car in high humidity and or rainy days!!

Then why not just inject water vapor and save all the hassle of electrolysis?

You lost all your FAKE money!! LOL!!

As I said, there's simply no way to rationally argue against an intellect as large as yours.

[xjet]

What does using water to get a 25% increase in gas mileage have anything to do with "overunity"?

No one is claiming "free energy"...

Well given that MIT research (conducted by Heywood) was only able to establish a maximum of 10% improvement in thermal efficiency using hydrogen injection (under *ideal* conditions), then where does the extra 15% of energy come from?

It doesn't say anything about overunity! You are asking for a 25% increase in fuel efficiency..... That's a whole different ballgame that you already lost!

To improve fuel efficiency you must be adding energy - where is that energy coming from?

You sir, are a fool!

And you "sir" keep making claims without evidence.  That's not good science, that's BS (bad science)

[0ne]

Incorrect, I believe there are parts of me that are missing.

Yeah you are missing your brain! A "complete idiot" is a man without a brain! Just like you!

Very true -- I saw that episode.  They had a *huge* hydrogen tank and a tube fed into the carburetor with quite a significant rate of flow.

And strangely enough, when they tried to run the car from an electrolysis cell it wouldn't even fire.  Or did you fall asleep before that part of the very same episode?

Did you even pay attention? Do you know the difference between "100% hydrogen", and a "hydrogen booster"??

On Mythbusters, they tried to run a car with 100% hydrogen only with a fuel cell. No sh!t that won't work.  What Mythbusters didn't try was to "BOOST" a gas car with a hydrogen/gasoline mix, which is what your wannabe million dollar challenge is about. Do you understand the difference yet?

Sigh.  I would have thought that at least some of those here might have had the most rudimentary understanding of the laws of thermodynamics and energy conservation but clearly this most basic concept of physics is clearly way over your head.

I invented f*king ANTI-GRAVITY, and I know every single THEORY that you ever read about. I have 23 inventions, how many do you have?

Go to my website and read the very simple math that shows the folly of your suggestion:

If you can follow the simple math, you'll understand why it's not possible to recover the energy it took to create that hydrogen by electrolysis but here's a simple summary for you:

Take 1 unit of mechanical energy from the car's engine (used to drive the alternator).

Multiply that by the efficiency of the alternator (0.65)  = 0.65 units of energy

Now use that energy to run an electrolysis cell and split the water into H2/O2.  This has an efficiency of probably around 0.60 so now our original unit of energy is just: 0.39 units.

I underlined your flaw! Electrolysis is the process of using BRUTE FORCE ELECTRICITY to split water.  Electrolysis is like using dynamite to open a locked door, when you can just use a KEY!

There is a new method where you use HEAT to weaken the electromagnetic bond between the H and O.  Yes, heat is proven to make magnetic fields "weak". It's also proven that freezing magnets will make the fields "strong".  Think of water like frozen magnets. When you heat the water, you are making their electromagnetic bond "weak", that is why it becomes a gas!  When you turn water to a gas with heat, and then you need LESS ELECTRICITY TO MAKE HYDROGEN!  This is 90% more efficient then TRADITIONAL electrolysis!!

Dumb ass!

Then why not just inject water vapor and save all the hassle of electrolysis?

The only reason I was talking about humidity and water vapor, is because you believe for some reason that a car will "get damaged" when using a hydrogen booster, and so I was proving to you that there will be NO DAMAGE. Heck, I can show you water coming out of tail pipes of gas engines right now!

Also, too much oxygen, and your fuel won't ignite. It's called "running rich". That is why you need to disassociate the water.

As I said, there's simply no way to rationally argue against an intellect as large as yours.

You will NEVER win an argument against me, you are old school, I am new school. I know everything that you DON'T! Retire already old dog, you can't learn any new tricks!