URGENT! WATER AS FUEL ENGINE DISCOVERED AND PATENTED

[tishatang]

@All
Since Gotoluc started his thread, we have learned a lot in a short time.  We learned that the water undergoes a state of change from a liquid to a gas by the ignition of a plasma spark.  The spark is triggered by high voltage and low voltage combined, releasing a radiant effect that relaxes the bonds of the molecules of water into a vapor by evidently the latent heat in the water itself.  It seems only the water in the near field of the spark is effected.  Knowing these things, how would we go about designing and ICE to run on water.  It turns out someone did all these things in 1972.  Go here and look at this patent with new eyes!

http://www.rexresearch.com/papp/2pappats.htm#4428193

Joseph Papp called it a Noble Gas motor, but it really is a water motor.  Look at the combustion chambers, four toroid cavities with the electrodes in the center.  Hermetically sealed to keep the gases and water in and not contaminate the crankcase.  High voltage and low voltage to the spark electrodes with extra modulation of AC in the megahertz range.  Plus additional magnetic coils to stress the water.  The two stroke motor uses the down stroke of one cylinder to prepare the firing of the upstroke cylinder.  The exhaust stays within the engine and is recycled.  There is only a brief mention of water mixed with mineral oil and chlorine.  The big emphasis is on the noble gas mixture as the fuel.  I am guessing the noble gas thing is smoke and mirrors because Papp knew the power was simply water and he wanted to keep that secret.  I am thinking he didn't know how to describe what was really happening, the Graneau Paper didn't come out until the late 1990's.  So, he invented a lot of extra things to put in the stew to convince the patent office and his investors his had a new type of nuclear process going on, and it was so complicated only he had the "magic" formula and keys to the secret.

The first patent mentions the water mix and the plasma spark and pretreating the water with 440 volts for six hours.  The second patent  1984 shown further down the page conveniently never mentions the water formula.

Those of you smarter than I am should look at this patent and separate BS from what is important to do to the water for our own engines.  There is always the possibility of a noble gas actually contributing to the power.  The radiant spark can change water to its next higher state of a gas.  Maybe it can also change a gas into a higher state, maybe a monatomic  form or something.  Maybe one of you with an engine can try sparking your test engine when it is filled with helium or orgon or neon or whatever is handy?

Anyway a lot of engineering and money went into this design.  There should be design clues to help us in our quest.

Tishatang

[gotoluc]

Hi Tishatang,

thank you for creating this excellent topic. You are wise to link Joseph Papp's Gas Motor with what we are doing since we will probably find out we will need a similar process in the end to make this work.

Joseph Papp past away some years ago but he had an assistant that went on his own after some dispute and he actually refined the Gas Motor to a new level. I had some video's of his work and I will go through an old hard drive to find them and upload them for everyone to see.

Please keep this topic going as it will be an important resource for us.

Luc

BTW, good topic title

[rapttor]

There's some guys at a machine shop in I believe florida that have completely replicated Papp's engine design, and it works just as he said it did.
http://www.rohnermachine.com/index.html
http://www.pappengine.com/

thanks Tishatang for posting this subject

regards,
rapttor

[broli]

Gotta love how much mentioning of how complex this "magic" is on those pages. Knowing the principle a bit better now it's like knowing what's bs in that patent and what's not. It's a lovely feeling.

[wavez]

Very neat. I was not familiar with the Papp engine before now.

@ Tishatang, you mention a paper by Peter Graneau. Do you have a link for this?