bessler wheel principle solved?

[Chad]

I must appologise in advance for the length that this post will be..sorry about that.

the content of this post isnt fact but my theory of the wheel and the principle of how and why it could work!, i thought long and hard whether to post this for various reasons,  i decided to put it out there for everyone just in case it works or may lead to a working wheel, im not a selfish person by nature and i don't want to start being one now.


Ok, like most ive thought of every conceivable way to get the wheel rotating and keep rotating but i have  hit all the walls
that everybody else has hit, then i bought the AP book from john collins and also MT book and read from start to finish.

I reached the point were the infamous metaphor is printed and tried to understand what he may be trying to explain, also the picture at the end of the
book preceded by the biblical verses, i may be able to shed some light on this also!.

i will concentrate on only a small portion of the metaphor below. "thanks to john Collins"

A wheel appears on the scene - is it really a wheel,

for it does not have the normal type of rim. It revolves, but
without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind,
or springs. Seen sideways or full-face it is as resplendent as a
peacock's tail. It turns to the right and to the left; it spins around
in any possible direction, whether laden or empty.

All things belong to one of the three kingdoms (animal, vegetable,
matter) and - you have the physical evidence in front of you.
Without such things as sulphur, salt and mercury all things will
soon come to a standstill - the qualities of the elements are
necessary to keep things going. Saturn, Mars and Jupiter are
ready to join in any battle. Even the things we eat do not lose their
elemental influence - for it spreads itself through every limb and
sinew of our bodies. A crab crawls from side to side. It is sound,
for it is designed thus. Poltergeists often wander freely through
locked doors.

Now there are certain parts of this metaphor i would like to concentrate on as i feel that they may be relevant, also the at the end of the AP book the strange picture is something else i would like to discuss.


Now bessler talks about how his wheel is resplendant as a peacocks tail, i looked through the MT book and the only drawing that was anything near a peacocks tail was drawing number 15 !.

He then talks about all things belong to 1 of 3 kingdoms!, could this be a link to drawing number 13?....hold that thought!.

We move on to "Without such things as sulphur, salt and mercury all things will
soon come to a standstill - the qualities of the elements are
necessary to keep things going", ok so this refers to alchemy.

Salt = Salt is known as the "contractive force" .

Sulfur = was used to denote the "expansive force".

Mercury = represented the "integrative force".

This would indicate that the wheel uses expansive, contractive with and integrative force for it to function!.

ok next we have what i think is the most important part of the device and that is described by "Saturn, Mars and Jupiter are
ready to join in any battle", i think this part of the metaphor relates to the picture at the end of the AP book!, i studied the planets Mars Saturn and Jupiter and took measurements of there diameter's i then scaled these down and overlaid them to descover they look like the picure below



wow this looks very much like the center of the picture in the AP book seen below,



so now i search the whole of the MT book looking for this same picture to find it smack bang in the middle of picture number 13, yes there are others that look similar but not the same!.




Then this brings us to"A crab crawls from side to side. It is sound,
for it is designed thus" and this side to side explains the movement of our pendulum in the center of picture number 13.

So after this it looks like there could be a link between picture 13 and 15 in MT, and dont forget these are 2 pictures that for some reason were drawn to run "anticlockwise" in the original MT book!.

Right now we will look at the second part of the picture in the AP book, the equal 3 sections that surround our mars saturn and jupiter, these segments are 22.5 degrees each now divide our 360 degree circle by 22.5 and you get 16, now the only picture in the MT book that has 16 equal segments is.....wait for it..you got it drawing number 15  as seen below.




In the Book MT bessler describes picture number 13 and says it would run well if it were not for the  friction, and in picture number 15 he also says that the prime mover's source cannot be seen or deduced but the figure shows an over balance , so whats its source?...could it be the pendulum in picture 13, the friction might be overcome by the extra leverage by the long limbs!.

Now at the end of the book were the strange picture is, there are also some verses just above, now i could it be the wheel is actually given away here?, its as if he has let you read his whole book and given you the answers right at the end.


Jacob III.v.14.15.16
Matth.XV.v.16

all these pitures in the MT book are variations of the one before and seem to have a slightly modified characteristic than the previous one, the only exception in picture number 3 depicted by III, i feel that this may be a link to picture number 13.


so if we combine different parts of the pictures 13 with 15 and taking small details from 14 16 we have something that looks like this picture below



Now im not saying this is exactly how i think that besslers wheel looked but i think that this is the principle, i know that the weight on the right of the wheel may not be enough to lift the next limb into place  but i do know that the weight on the right is enough to drag the pendulum to the right were it will eventually be let go, now this is were i think the wheel comes to life!, as the pendulum falls back towards the center it gains momentum and hits the next lever with enough force to lift the next limb into place!, is momentum  the key that nobody has been using?.

The machine will gain a natural rhythm were it will increase speed because none or very little of the wheels momentum is lost due to the pendulum gaining and storing that energy then sending that kinetic energy through the lever raising the next limb.

bessler said :-

"all the inmost parts, and the perpetual-motion structures, retain the power of free movement, as I've been saying since 1712."

the force the pendulum gains through momentum is enough to shift the limb up and not effect the momentum of the wheel.


"The clattering noise you refer to is, I assure you, a phenomenon caused directly by the real motive power of the machine, and nothing else."

This would be the sound of the pendulum hitting the little levers that raise the limbs

"a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time."

the limbs are slid up and the weights swap places as he states.

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain."

when the weights on the right pulls the pendulum to the right it is then released were it strikes the next lever wich is also traveling the opposite way to what the pendulum is swinging and the force is enough to raise the weight very rapidly indeed and take very little if anything from the wheel causing the wheel to speed up and gain momentum from its constant falling weights.

"Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago, I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to be that one has to learn through bitter experience."

the pendulum has been the missing key.


In a true Perpetuum Mobile everything must, necessarily, go round together. There can be nothing involved in it which remains stationary on the axle."

Bessler never admitted to weights being on the axle but he never said there wasnt a pendulum , The pendulum swings back and forth rapidly, and is never
stationary.

the rest of the quotes can be found here , you should see that they all seem to have at least some relevance to the description i have given.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:Clues

There could also be an answer for the strange attachment that was seen on the bessler wheel, i think this was some kind of timing device for the internal pendulum maybe to prevent it from swinging to far and becoming out of balance, maybe that some of the pendulums energy was transfered to this pendulum type device so it wasn't wasted and could be retrieved on the back swing. bessler said that it could be knocked out of balance.


obviously i don't think this is the finished item but i do think it gives us something solid to work on.



picture quality may suffer through resizing.

hope you have enjoyed the read.


With Thanks to

john collins
besslerwheel.com
offyre.com

Thanks guys

Chad.

[Sprocket]

Hi.  Excellent post, definitely gave me something to think about!  I am coming around to a similar opinion regarding pendulums, namely that you won't get PM without one.  This view was further fueled after reading the below article  involving two-stage oscillators, particularily where the author shows how the pendulum can impart considerable energy to the driven section, while its own movement is relatively immune to the forces acting on the rest of the mechanism - which to me at least is unexpected and counter-intuitive...

http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm

[Alexioco]

I must appologise in advance for the length that this post will be..sorry about that.

the content of this post isnt fact but my theory of the wheel and the principle of how and why it could work!, i thought long and hard whether to post this for various reasons,  i decided to put it out there for everyone just in case it works or may lead to a working wheel, im not a selfish person by nature and i don't want to start being one now.


Ok, like most ive thought of every conceivable way to get the wheel rotating and keep rotating but i have  hit all the walls
that everybody else has hit, then i bought the AP book from john collins and also MT book and read from start to finish.

I reached the point were the infamous metaphor is printed and tried to understand what he may be trying to explain, also the picture at the end of the
book preceded by the biblical verses, i may be able to shed some light on this also!.

i will concentrate on only a small portion of the metaphor below. "thanks to john Collins"

A wheel appears on the scene - is it really a wheel,

for it does not have the normal type of rim. It revolves, but
without other wheels inside or outside, and without weights, wind,
or springs. Seen sideways or full-face it is as resplendent as a
peacock's tail. It turns to the right and to the left; it spins around
in any possible direction, whether laden or empty.

All things belong to one of the three kingdoms (animal, vegetable,
matter) and - you have the physical evidence in front of you.
Without such things as sulphur, salt and mercury all things will
soon come to a standstill - the qualities of the elements are
necessary to keep things going. Saturn, Mars and Jupiter are
ready to join in any battle. Even the things we eat do not lose their
elemental influence - for it spreads itself through every limb and
sinew of our bodies. A crab crawls from side to side. It is sound,
for it is designed thus. Poltergeists often wander freely through
locked doors.

Now there are certain parts of this metaphor i would like to concentrate on as i feel that they may be relevant, also the at the end of the AP book the strange picture is something else i would like to discuss.


Now bessler talks about how his wheel is resplendant as a peacocks tail, i looked through the MT book and the only drawing that was anything near a peacocks tail was drawing number 15 !.

He then talks about all things belong to 1 of 3 kingdoms!, could this be a link to drawing number 13?....hold that thought!.

We move on to "Without such things as sulphur, salt and mercury all things will
soon come to a standstill - the qualities of the elements are
necessary to keep things going", ok so this refers to alchemy.

Salt = Salt is known as the "contractive force" .

Sulfur = was used to denote the "expansive force".

Mercury = represented the "integrative force".

This would indicate that the wheel uses expansive, contractive with and integrative force for it to function!.

ok next we have what i think is the most important part of the device and that is described by "Saturn, Mars and Jupiter are
ready to join in any battle", i think this part of the metaphor relates to the picture at the end of the AP book!, i studied the planets Mars Saturn and Jupiter and took measurements of there diameter's i then scaled these down and overlaid them to descover they look like the picure below



wow this looks very much like the center of the picture in the AP book seen below,



so now i search the whole of the MT book looking for this same picture to find it smack bang in the middle of picture number 13, yes there are others that look similar but not the same!.




Then this brings us to"A crab crawls from side to side. It is sound,
for it is designed thus" and this side to side explains the movement of our pendulum in the center of picture number 13.

So after this it looks like there could be a link between picture 13 and 15 in MT, and dont forget these are 2 pictures that for some reason were drawn to run "anticlockwise" in the original MT book!.

Right now we will look at the second part of the picture in the AP book, the equal 3 sections that surround our mars saturn and jupiter, these segments are 22.5 degrees each now divide our 360 degree circle by 22.5 and you get 16, now the only picture in the MT book that has 16 equal segments is.....wait for it..you got it drawing number 15  as seen below.




In the Book MT bessler describes picture number 13 and says it would run well if it were not for the  friction, and in picture number 15 he also says that the prime mover's source cannot be seen or deduced but the figure shows an over balance , so whats its source?...could it be the pendulum in picture 13, the friction might be overcome by the extra leverage by the long limbs!.

Now at the end of the book were the strange picture is, there are also some verses just above, now i could it be the wheel is actually given away here?, its as if he has let you read his whole book and given you the answers right at the end.


Jacob III.v.14.15.16
Matth.XV.v.16

all these pitures in the MT book are variations of the one before and seem to have a slightly modified characteristic than the previous one, the only exception in picture number 3 depicted by III, i feel that this may be a link to picture number 13.


so if we combine different parts of the pictures 13 with 15 and taking small details from 14 16 we have something that looks like this picture below



Now im not saying this is exactly how i think that besslers wheel looked but i think that this is the principle, i know that the weight on the right of the wheel may not be enough to lift the next limb into place  but i do know that the weight on the right is enough to drag the pendulum to the right were it will eventually be let go, now this is were i think the wheel comes to life!, as the pendulum falls back towards the center it gains momentum and hits the next lever with enough force to lift the next limb into place!, is momentum  the key that nobody has been using?.

The machine will gain a natural rhythm were it will increase speed because none or very little of the wheels momentum is lost due to the pendulum gaining and storing that energy then sending that kinetic energy through the lever raising the next limb.

bessler said :-

"all the inmost parts, and the perpetual-motion structures, retain the power of free movement, as I've been saying since 1712."

the force the pendulum gains through momentum is enough to shift the limb up and not effect the momentum of the wheel.


"The clattering noise you refer to is, I assure you, a phenomenon caused directly by the real motive power of the machine, and nothing else."

This would be the sound of the pendulum hitting the little levers that raise the limbs

"a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time."

the limbs are slid up and the weights swap places as he states.

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall. If he can sort that out, the motion will perpetuate itself. But if he can't, then his hard work shall be all in vain."

when the weights on the right pulls the pendulum to the right it is then released were it strikes the next lever wich is also traveling the opposite way to what the pendulum is swinging and the force is enough to raise the weight very rapidly indeed and take very little if anything from the wheel causing the wheel to speed up and gain momentum from its constant falling weights.

"Many would-be Mobile-makers think that if they can arrange for some of the weights to be a little more distant from the center than the others, then the thing will surely revolve. A few years ago, I learned all about this the hard way. And then the truth of the old proverb came home to be that one has to learn through bitter experience."

the pendulum has been the missing key.


In a true Perpetuum Mobile everything must, necessarily, go round together. There can be nothing involved in it which remains stationary on the axle."

Bessler never admitted to weights being on the axle but he never said there wasnt a pendulum , The pendulum swings back and forth rapidly, and is never
stationary.

the rest of the quotes can be found here , you should see that they all seem to have at least some relevance to the description i have given.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=Portal:Clues

There could also be an answer for the strange attachment that was seen on the bessler wheel, i think this was some kind of timing device for the internal pendulum maybe to prevent it from swinging to far and becoming out of balance, maybe that some of the pendulums energy was transfered to this pendulum type device so it wasn't wasted and could be retrieved on the back swing. bessler said that it could be knocked out of balance.


obviously i don't think this is the finished item but i do think it gives us something solid to work on.



picture quality may suffer through resizing.

hope you have enjoyed the read.


With Thanks to

john collins
besslerwheel.com
offyre.com

Thanks guys

Chad.

Thats a very interesting theory, how is the pendulum pulled so that it may swing back a forth? Its a good idea because once started the pendulum wouldn't need much energy to keep it swing as the wheel revolves...

[Chad]

thank you guys.

Alex this is the principle of the wheel.

when the wheel's over ballanced right hand side begins to fall it imparts some of the energy of the falling 16 weights to the pendulum wich forces the top pendulum to lean quite far to the right hand side,  it has 16 weights that weigh 1 pound each on the right side.. 8 x 1lb weights on the end and 8 on the inside.

Now when the wheel falls some of the energy is lost due to friction and from lifting the weights on the left hand side, but not to worry there is an excess of energy due to the leverage of the rods being extended on the right side.

So the right side is falling and it is dragging the top of pendulum to the right using the levers that are attached to the rods that have the weights attached, now there comes a point were the pendulum is released as the lever is forced sideways causing it to lift the rod, then the pendulum swings to the left were it hits the next lever with a greater force than what it had in the first place..why?.. because the pendulum base has fallen gaining momentum wich causes the top to hit the next lever harder lifting it very quickly, then the process repeats gaining momentum each cycle.

Use the weight of many to lift one!, break the weight into small equal sections and lift a section at a time using the weight and momentum of the rest through the action of the pendulum and as an "integrating force" described by bessler himself when he mentions "mercury" along with other elements!, mercury was described in alchemy as" the integrating force!".

this is how bessler did it.

[Alexioco]

hmmm seems good to me, what about the toy page though? I am currently looking at it about the jacobs ladder toy which I belive to be a way the weights are connected...