The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)

[ATT]

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In which case if we could use a piezoelectric coupling with this material we could obtain energy output as the device shrinks and expands if made correctly

About 20-30% efficiency:
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070603225026.htm

Maybe 60% possible:
www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4243793.html

Check out some of the other links on the previous page.
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[Nabo00o]

@Angryscientist
If you mean that I want to extract energy from the heat of the environment then no.
This is what the main conflict in this whole tread has been about, of course we could use the energy of heat in the atmosphere to generate electricity and mechanical motion, it is recharged by the sun every second!

However it is not what the heat pump does, it uses energy to make two potentials of temperature without spending energy directly to the amount of potential energy produced, it is a whole different story!
Also, if no temperature was ever absorbed and emitted in the heat exchangers no potential would be produced and the system would be in a state of symmetry. But because of the changes in temperature not directly tied to the pressure created by the compressor, an asymmetrical potential source can be generated and used, and this is what makes a heat pump special, at least from my perspective.


Of course there's nothing wrong in draining the heat of our planet a little, it would probably help it, but I do not believe that this is what the heat pump does, remember, it creates both heat and cold, not just one, and this does also make the system balance and fit the extended 4-space conservation of energy.
We are not using physical energy here, we are in fact using time!

Nab

[ATT]

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However it is not what the heat pump does, it uses energy to make two potentials of temperature without spending energy directly to the amount of potential energy produced.....an asymmetrical potential source can be generated.....remember, it creates both heat and cold, not just one.....We are not using physical energy here, we are in fact using time!

@Nabo00o
I like your idea of investigating the possibilities in taking advantage of the current state of efficiency in heat heat-pumps, but I can't handle the ideas you have of why a heat-pump does what it does.

Look, there isn't any hidden esoterica involved with any of this. There's no symmetry/asymmetry, no splitting of heat and cold, no temporal displacement, no 'creation' of heat or cold and most importantly, no 'free-lunch'.

The initial efficiencies are the result of leveraging the properties of refrigerants. The gains that have occured over the years are cheifly the the result of increased motor efficiency, exchanger optimization, refrigerant engineering and better controls.

When I started in this field in 1972, heat-pumps had a COP of 2.0, it's taken 37 years for design improvements and technology advances to get that COP pumped up to 5+.

Any current potential for getting the 'snake to eat it's tail' and have energy left over is the result of incremental improvements made by engineers that subscribe to the predictable, calculatable, well-known laws of thermodynamics.

That's the way I approach it; the quantities we're dealing with are measurable, the resulting values can be plugged-in to mathematical statements, the results can be extrapolated over a range of conditions.

Before fashioning an alternate view, it would be useful to get a good grounding in the currently accepted methodology to actually understand 'why' those of us that have made a living doing this over these many years accept the current view.

Having said all that, tell me about your guitar and your farm. I still have my '68 355, HD28 and strat but haven't used any of them in years (I'm just getting too old...).

Nabo00o, your idea really is a good one given the current state of the art, I would never have considered it if you hadn't brought it to our attention.
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[nueview]

hi nabooo

you seem to have gotten the idea of how energy works but i noticed that nobody stated that if you raise the temperature of a liquid and it takes on energy to become a gas that the rise in temperature and pressure will continue to raise the temperature and pressure although it gives a diminishing return it has been put to good use on the air car system by holding the pressure at the top of the stroke for a time to gain efficiency and power.
a sterling engine is a good idea but pressure blead off the system when hot could add energy to the system and when the system cools the vaccuum could be used for a restart of the system so all and all you got a good idea.
there is a swedish company that makes large sterling engines for submarines but can't seem to find the address right now.

martin

[Nabo00o]

ATT you're right, I need to keep my feet on the ground. But just so you know, I have have always looked upon myself as a human who wants to study and know things, not just get convinced by some fantastic idea and then just go for it. All that about symmetry and asymmetry is deeper than you could think, it goes not only for every possible free energy device in existence, asymmetry is also the primary requirement to create any kind of force, and so also to do any kind of work, weather positive or negative. If two forces are equal or in symmetry, then no net work can be done.
Sorry if this kind of talk bores you, since you obviously knows the practical workings of the machine well.
I do however wonder if there is a theoretical bit which the scientists and engineers who have created todays modern heat-pumps have forgot to include, or to take into account.
For example, a REAL COP of 5 is not just about saving in on inefficiencies is it? I do believe there is more.

About other stuff, that guitar was really pretty cheap  I bought it, an amplifier and a soundbox in a combined package, non of them was really that good, but I am really happy that I spent some money on it
Our farm is really my grandparents farm, we don't work with that anymore, but my dad grows and sells all kinds of flowers and bushes.  We got a pretty big garage/workshop and my granddad also used to collect all kinds of metal parts, old machines, steel plates, anything really which could be used for something.
I guess I'm pretty lucky to have all that available now, even though it is without any kind of order and looks like what many might have called a junk storage.

@Martin
Good to see you here!
This continuation of temperature and pressure, is it related to the sudden phase change instead of a gradual one, how exactly is it used? Thanks.