Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?

[hartiberlin]

As the boyuancy force must be greater than the volume
of the water above the balloon swimmer unit, also if you go deeper,
say 10 Meters below seawater level you also have to lift 10 Meters of
water with the balloon, so you need at least a balloon filled with air that is also
10 Meters high in the pipe ! Otherwise you can not lift 10 Meters of water volume
above it !
If the balloon would only be 9 Meters high inside the pipe, the
water above it would be too heavy to get lifted  and all stays in place !

Is this correct ?

[hartiberlin]

As long as sealevel is not reached by the shuttle, it has the same buoyancy which needs to be greater than the force of 1m water above the sealevel. Correct me if I'm wrong or simply tell your criticism!

Andi

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Andi this is wrong, you have to lift the whole mass above the balloon,
so when it is 10 Meters deep you also have to lift 10 Meters of volume
of water above it , not just 1 Meter of Water volume !
This is, where all people over here seem to make the mistake I guess...

Am I right ?

Or did I forget the water pressure from the lower balloon side ?

[tbird]

hi FreeEnergy,

it's not opening for air passege but for water. when the one-way-valve-shuttle goes down the pipe it opens for water to come in, then it closes when it goes up to push the water to the upper half of the pipe.

no air being pumped in my idea

in order to sink, the air either has to go out or be compressed.  if you are not pumping air in....  tell me about the air.  how do you handle it?

andi,

Thanks for the good calculation - very good and exact job.
There is one thing that makes the whole thing running: You calculated the energy gain and loss while the swimmer is 2 meters under the water, so it has to go 2 meters upward and pump 1m water in a reservoir. Then your calculations are right then energy gained=energy lost when compressing. I think, never mind how deep the swimmer is and how much water he has to push up, the needed energy is always the same, its always the energy we need for pumping 1m water in the reservoir, the 1m above sealevel. As long as sealevel is not reached by the shuttle, it has the same buoyancy which needs to be greater than the force of 1m water above the sealevel. Correct me if I'm wrong or simply tell your criticism!

I think, the problem is - the deeper the shuttle goes, the more pressure we need to reinflate it...

did you miss my last post to stefan?  let me address some things here.

to begin with, you can not get water out at the total lift height.  if lift = 1 meter, the exit would have to be < 1 meter and the storage area (if used) lower than that.  space available for the storage device is the only limitation for the size.  the shallower you can make it, the higher it can be mounted (water exit height from system max).  if the shuttle is at 10meters and has expanded to displace a positive 1 meter, the 10 meters above will be displaced to the system just under 1 meter above sealevel.  this does make a difference.  you now have almost 10 time the weight to do work.  that's a lot!  also the designs you are talking about don't reduce the exit pipe size, you don't take advantage of leverage for recompression, and stefan wouldn't let it go all the way to the top (actually could go above surface).

this is why i didn't want to get the cart before the horse.  there are a lot of ways to make this work, there are a lot of ways to make it fail, but before we draw up plans we should see how all fits together.  clearly type 1 and type 2 use different parts, so combining the 2 would just produce a type 3 that probably doesn't work.  maybe we should stick to the orignal design until everyone understands how it works.  then if we want to modify, for the better, everybody will know why it will or won't work.

tbird

[FreeEnergy]

it gets mechanically compressed (some type of lever) some how so that the one-way-water-shuttle returns to the buttom of the pipe.

[hartiberlin]

There is a difference if a cylindrical balloon is under water inside a pipe
or inside the water free floating at the same water deepth !

If you have it in a pipe  it can not lift up, if the water volume above it
will be more than its own balloon volume.

In the free floating case you can have it several hundred Meters under water
and it will go up to the top, so there is the difference, that there the
water can move to the side ontop if it, so the boyuancy force F is always there.
For instance, if you have a balloon 100 Meters under water and hold it via a thread
and let it go to the top you just can get the Energy: boyuancy force F  x distance 100 Meters.

In the case of the gravity mill the violation would be, that it would be able to shift
10 times the weight force of all the water volume above it, which is
not the case, otherwise the energy would be e.g. 10 x boyuancy force F x distance,
which is not the case.