Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?

[tbird]

stefan,

if you had  "not so thight tubes and
some leakage", how could you expect it to work?

if i build a unit to prove this to you, what prize do i get?

tbird

just read your 2nd post.  stop it!  you are not making any sense.  i will try to build something this afternoon and vedio it.  if i can't make it work, i'll leave.  if i can,.........

[prajna]

i'm running out of ways to say it.

Sorry to try your patience, tbird.

Can we try approaching it from another angle.  If I have 2 kg to lift from a depth of 10m I could attach a balloon to the weight and blow it up with air.  How many litres of air would I have to put into the balloon at 10m to make the weight rise?  I figure that I would need to have just over 4 litres in the balloon. If I were to compress those 4 litres of air into my 1 litre box then what would the pressure be inside the box? I figure the compression ratio would be 4:1 and the pressure would be 4 bar absolute or 3 bar gauge.  Am I anywhere close?

if i can't make it work, i'll leave.

Please don't leave tbird.  I'd go crazy trying to deal with the pressure.

[tbird]

prajna,

don't worry, i have time for you.

if you have 2 U.S. coins that add up to 55 cents and one of them is not a 5 cent coin, what 2 coins would you have??

given; U.S. makes 1 cent, 5cent, 10 cent, 25 cent, 50 cent, and 1 dollar coins.

if you think this is impossible, think again.........the answer is a 50 cent and 5 cent coin.  you say...but there is not suppose to be a 5 cent coin!  that's right, the 50 cent coin is NOT a 5 cent coin.

sometimes the obvious is too obvious.  let's assign our pressures a color.  the 1st bar is the atmosphere at sea level.  this will be yellow and each atmosphere (bar) of water will be blue.  we won't concern ourselves with weight at this time.  we know we are trying to create a nice positive lift.  so, if the numbers demand 4 bar (absolute gauge)to be compressed in the container to go down, 2 bar will be blue and 2 bar will be yellow.  you say how can that be???  well we start with 1 yellow bar and add a blue bar, that would be what was needed to make the container static at 10m.  but we want it to be able to double it's volume so we have to multiple this by 2, so 2 times 1 yellow is 2 yellow and 2 times 1 blue is 2 blue.  you know this has to be true because when you read the expanded pressure at 10m, you will see 1 yellow bar and 1 blue bar,  because you are still reading absolute pressure.  if it where 2 blue bars, you would be reading gauge pressure.  now if we go to 20m we would need 1 yellow bar and 2 blue bar (we didn't add atmosphere pressure (it still weighs the same) we added 1 bar water pressure).  so to make it double volume, we multiple by 2.  this gives us 2 yellow and 4 blue.  and so on and so no.  the atmosphere pressure always being the same (2 yellow).  the thing that is increasing is the water pressure not the atmosphere, but the absolute gauge always has to account for it.

so it is easier to just work with the blue bar.

maybe it would be better to write a formula that deals with the pressure rather than the volume.  we know that 2 times the pressure equals half the volume and half the pressure equals 2 times the volume.  the main reason we want to know this pressure is to figure how much weight we need to recompress.  the pumping pipe diameter will give us the area to apply the pressure to, so if we take the pressure time the area, we have the weight. it is easy enough to figure how much water will be delivered just by knowing how much is available.  the shuttle size is really only important to determine how high and how fast the water will be delivered.

hope i didn't bore you to tears.

tbird

ps i was out for awhile buying stuff for test.

[prajna]

tbird,

the thing that is increasing is the water pressure not the atmosphere, but the absolute gauge always has to account for it.

Absolutely (if you'll pardon the pun), and the absolute gauge always  does.  We can think of it as a gauge that is 'zeroed' at 1 bar when the tire gauge is zeroed at zero. When we go down to 10m they both change by the same amount but the absolute gauge always reads 1 bar or 14.5 psi or 1 atmosphere more than the tire gauge.  To indicate gauge pressure, having done my calculations in absolute terms I simply subtract 1 from whatever pressure I am converting from absolute to gauge pressure.  Isn't this back where I started from?

If I am talking volumes then it is easy because I can simply add them or double them and nobody gets confused.  Likewise with weights.  Ho boy!

I am writing an 'Introduction to ELSA' and in that I state it like this:

Let's say that our shuttle has a weight of 8kg, radius of 14.27cm and a height of 25cm. We can calculate the volume (and therefore the displacement) of the shuttle using the formular Ïâ,¬ r² h:

3.1415926535897932384626433832795 * 14.27 * 14.27 * 25 = 15999.7

To convert that to litres we divide by 1,000 = 15.9997; that's 16 litres, near as damn it.

If we were to compress the shuttle to half of its length then it would have a displacement of 8 litres and the pressure of the air inside would be at 2kg/cm². Normal air pressure is taken to be approximately 1kg/cm².

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your experiments.

[hartiberlin]

stefan,

if you had  "not so thight tubes and
some leakage", how could you expect it to work?

if i build a unit to prove this to you, what prize do i get?

tbird

just read your 2nd post.  stop it!  you are not making any sense.  i will try to build something this afternoon and vedio it.  if i can't make it work, i'll leave.  if i can,.........

Hi TBird,
if you can show us, that your water in the exit pipe goes higher than the height
of the shuttle volume, I will wire you 10 US$ via PayPal , so you can buy yourself
a bottle of champain or a sixpack and have a party !