Sabous Magnet Motor

[jeffc]

AB Hammer, "This can be a true statement if there are no resistance. Gravity + velocity - resistance.  Resistance / friction will regulate any speed. A PM device blowing apart is possible, but not likely unless it is built poorly. But all and all don't you think we need a runner first before we argue about flying apart."

  I am loosing my mind trying to get you all to understand what I am saying.

For A PM to produce more energy then it consumes, it would have to continuously accelerate unless a resistance is added to limit the RPM of the PM.

You get the PM to self run, then it consumes the energy it produces and therefore will stay at a steady RPM. Once a resistance is added, it will decelerate until it comes to a halt.

Isn’t that basic common sense?

Nightlife,

I see your point (or believe I do).  Let me phrase it another way and see if you would agree.

If a moving device like this one is OU, then it is more than 100% efficient by definition, meaning it produces MORE energy than it needs to have continuous motion at a fixed speed.  That energy above 100%, without resistance/load to remove it, HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE, so it HAS TO ACCELERATE because nothing is there to drain the excess energy from a closed system.

Is this a correct explanation that fits your argument?

If so, then even a system just barely overunity (101%) would slowly accelerate over time without some additional load to slow the acceleration.  And because the acceleration would be infinite, at some point it has to surpass the stability point of the build and destruct.

In any case, just to see a Unity device would be a good start.  I pure self runner would likely to have some possibilities for reduction of friction to push it overunity.  And any self runner should be immediately monitored for even slight acceleration which could be harnessed to drive a load to do useful work.

Regards,
jeffc

[nightlife]

Nihilanth, "Nightlife, there is a "modify" button in the top right corner of each post you make when signed in. I'd appreciate it if you used it in the future to add-on to your posts rather then quadruple-posting."

I am well aware of the modify option. I posted what I did the way I did for a reason.

jeffc, you too understand what I said and I agree that just a self runner would be a good start. My whole reasoning for stating what I did is because this PM was said to be a self starter but for it to do that, it would have to continue to accelerate after start until it self destructed and or a resistance was added to keep it from doing so.
The video clearly shows that it is not accelerating and therefore it could not have started by it's self. It does not show enough for us to be able to tell if it is a true PM self runner and I would like to see more because if it is even close to be a self runner, I found some resistance in the design that could be taken away.

[Creativity]

Nihilanth, "Nightlife, there is a "modify" button in the top right corner of each post you make when signed in. I'd appreciate it if you used it in the future to add-on to your posts rather then quadruple-posting."

I am well aware of the modify option. I posted what I did the way I did for a reason.

jeffc, you too understand what I said and I agree that just a self runner would be a good start. My whole reasoning for stating what I did is because this PM was said to be a self starter but for it to do that, it would have to continue to accelerate after start until it self destructed and or a resistance was added to keep it from doing so.
The video clearly shows that it is not accelerating and therefore it could not have started by it's self. It does not show enough for us to be able to tell if it is a true PM self runner and I would like to see more because if it is even close to be a self runner, I found some resistance in the design that could be taken away.

i see i didn't put enough accent on a small nuance.The characteristics of a device is also important.I mean a resistance and how it behaves in function of rpm's.
To take this engine as an example,it has stacks of magnets going through the air.Drag force on this parts will vary as the square of velocity.It is thus possible that this engine is a self starter and accelerates until it reaches steady speed.

It comes form the fact, that if this device outputs any torque,it is a constant one(or constant pulses) because magnets strength is constant also.So static torque (when holding it not to turn) will be the same as at any rpm's.
At 0 rpm the drag force will be 0 ,so any surplus torque will make the wheel to spin(self start) and accelerate.As the rmp's increase also drag increase but much faster,so acceleration will be decreasing! At some rpm's all of the torque will be consumed by drag force of air.U can visualise it as a graph with a constant force of generator line approached from under by a parabole of increasing drag force.Both curves in function of rpm's,the point where they intersect is the maximum speed of this device under given resistances.

As u see it is possible to have a self starter self runner,it only depends on the character of the resistance forces.

To go even further, this self starting self runner can output usefull energy when a load is added.As long as the load + air drag is not grater than torque,the engine will operate at lower rpm's but will not stop 

One more thing.When torque is pulsed, engine will not self start from every position.Here a car engine is a good analogy.Ony if the piston is at the end of compression cycle that a spark can start an engine.

[nightlife]

Creativity, 

"To take this engine as an example,it has stacks of magnets going through the air.Drag force on this parts will vary as the square of velocity.It is thus possible that this engine is a self starter and accelerates until it reaches steady speed."

That is imposable because that would mean that it would have to accelerate from the start to achieve any speed at all. The only way it could self start and achieve a steady speed it to add a resistance after it reached the speed desired. The drag (resistance) will always be there and it will only become greater as the speed becomes greater.

No pm can self start without eventually self destructing or without adding a resistance to keep it at a steady speed.

If a pm can rotate past the first resistance point from the start of repelling resistance point, it will continue to accelerate because the repelling resistance is greater then the attracting resistance at each point of resistance. The drag is a resistance from the first moment it starts to move and it only becomes greater as the rotation becomes greater and the action has a equally resistance at any speed unless another resistance is added after the start.

[jeffc]

i see i didn't put enough accent on a small nuance.The characteristics of a device is also important.I mean a resistance and how it behaves in function of rpm's.
To take this engine as an example,it has stacks of magnets going through the air.Drag force on this parts will vary as the square of velocity.It is thus possible that this engine is a self starter and accelerates until it reaches steady speed.

It comes form the fact, that if this device outputs any torque,it is a constant one(or constant pulses) because magnets strength is constant also.So static torque (when holding it not to turn) will be the same as at any rpm's.
At 0 rpm the drag force will be 0 ,so any surplus torque will make the wheel to spin(self start) and accelerate.As the rmp's increase also drag increase but much faster,so acceleration will be decreasing! At some rpm's all of the torque will be consumed by drag force of air.U can visualise it as a graph with a constant force of generator line approached from under by a parabole of increasing drag force.Both curves in function of rpm's,the point where they intersect is the maximum speed of this device under given resistances.

As u see it is possible to have a self starter self runner,it only depends on the character of the resistance forces.

To go even further, this self starting self runner can output usefull energy when a load is added.As long as the load + air drag is not grater than torque,the engine will operate at lower rpm's but will not stop 

One more thing.When torque is pulsed, engine will not self start from every position.Here a car engine is a good analogy.Ony if the piston is at the end of compression cycle that a spark can start an engine.

Creativity,

Do you think it is really air drag that is the limiting factor on this design?  On the video it appears to be a low rpm device, which makes me question if resistance from air is such a big factor. 

Also, I think friction does not increase with velocity, and in fact I think it can actually decrease (correct me if I'm wrong). 

As you say, in order for a self starter, self runner, there must be some kind of resistive force which increases with velocity.  Which resistive forces fit this characteristic?  Air drag is one possibility, but might not be enough at these low rpms and small sized unit.

Regards,
jeffc