Curled Ballisitic Thermionics

[retroworm]

Just a quick note about what I was previously saying.
It seems fairly hard to find aswers to very specific things, but from what I have studied so far, the radiation pressure should almost fully cancel out any toque produced by the machine. Intuitively, if the radiation is strong enough to divert the bulk mass of electrons so that they produce a significant force on impact, that radiation would also cause equal but opposite force as it hits the surface. There is narrow portion where returning (those heading towards center) electrons accelerate the emitting plate with radiation and receiving plate with impact without cancellation, but outwards going electrons would never produce net torque.

Probably more confusing than clarifying, but that's all I have now .

But considering that, there might be another much simpler configuration to demonstrate the concept. Pile rectangular planar plates with small gap, one edge much longer than the other, and run a magnetic field through it (perpendicular to the longer side). It is like a solid state version of the motor. It won't produce torque, but it should give out measurable amount of coherent (possibly exploitable) radiation from both ends. I've no idea what wavelength the radiation would be though.

[Philip Hardcastle]

Hi Retroworm,

So where do I send the cheque to?

To be honest I do not understand what you are saying.

Taking one electron emission at a time we have an electron with an average angle perpendicular to the surface emitted then as it starts its inter gap journey it is deflected by a magnetic field and then having travelled say 5um it crashes into (or is captured) the other surface but at a low angle (like a meteorite across the sky) and when impacting does 2 things, first it transfer some momentum, and secondly it imparts so energy by causing a vibration in the lattice (ie the metal gats a bit hotter).

So we know that the emitted electron cooled the electrode it left and heated the electrode it crashed into and that the difference in energies must be a translation into rotation for concentric electodes that are free to turn.

do you agree with that?

P

[retroworm]

Hehe, I'm not after your money. Everything I say is assuming the core idea is correct.

I didn't think it was clear explanation either, guess it needs a picture. I agree what you're saying but it's only part of what's happening. Black arrows in the illustration represent photons that are cast from the electrons as they curl. Photons don't have mass, but they do impart momentum when they are emitted (also the reason why the electrons curl at all) and when they hit a surface. The latter frame indicates that the torque of outgoing electrons is fully cancelled and won't have net effect. I haven't taken into account any possible reflections/refractions so this might not be fully accurate.

But this further makes me think that whatever net torque it does produce is going to be fairly weak. I'm beginning to think that solid state devices might be easier way to do it, at least for a demonstration. The second pic is just half assed illustration of what I mentioned in previous post. It's and electrode sandwich in a magnetic field that lets the radiation resulting from curling freely escape.

[Philip Hardcastle]

Hi Retroworm,

I must congratulate you on a highly creative idea.

However the effect of such is not quite as your diagram shows and the photon energy transferring into momentum is so incredibly small that it cannot be an issue. From my understanding a photon if fully absorbed transfers momentum at a pressure of the energy divided by c.

So the energy of a photon of say .01ev becomes a force of 3.33E-11 x Ec

As the radiation is also in many directions then the potential number of photons in a given and relevant direction is not 100%.

Also from your diagram it is apparent that the net force is almost zero just be cancellation.

however as said, you are by far the best candidate just because you found something to argue.


Phil

[Philip Hardcastle]

Sorry, bad units used but the idea is the same.

Need to properly convert the energy transfer to effective force.

will post a corrected calculation.