What makes Perpetual wheel attempts not work?

[mondrasek]

Yeah @persume, I guess I do not quite understand what you were expressing either.

[Philip Hardcastle]

Is an atom (say monotomic Hydrogen) an example of a perpetual motion device?

[persume]

You can't because they are, and gravity and magnetism have nothing to do with it.

The question was; how do you show that gravity and magnetism aren't conservative, and I answered that you can't because they are. And gravity and magnetism have nothing to do with perpetual motion. It is ridiculous and futile to try to attempt to rewrite how forces are to try to explain perpetual motion.

[mondrasek]

The question was; how do you show that gravity and magnetism aren't conservative, and I answered that you can't because they are. And gravity and magnetism have nothing to do with perpetual motion. It is ridiculous and futile to try to attempt to rewrite how forces are to try to explain perpetual motion.

So you believe that man knows all there is to know about gravity and magnetism?  There is nothing left unknown about them that, once learned, could be exploited for our benefit?

I agree that there is nothing within the known (by me at least) reactions and effects of gravity and magnetism that leads one to believe that it can be harnessed to do work.  I also understand that no one can explain exactly what gravity and magnetism are and why they act on other bodies instantaneously and without an apparent medium.  Until that is explained, I cannot say that the answer will not allow for manipulation of the physics behind those phenomenon for our advantage.

I, for one, do not believe the physics we have today is completely flawed.  Only that it shows only what we have learned so far.  And there is much yet to be learned.  Ask any physicist exactly what gravity is.  Unless they are only to recite high school level texts, they will tell you that we just do not know (yet).

[mondrasek]

Is an atom (say monotomic Hydrogen) an example of a perpetual motion device?

Good question.  Is energy being consumed or generated in order for the electron to stay in its orbit?