The Master Of Magnetics "Steven Mark"

[hartiberlin]

Hi Dave,
using your 2 transformer to double the amplitude of the sinwave
is probably energywise not right,
as you also double the inner resistance of this
sine wave power source, as you put 2 transformer output coils
in series and thus the inner power source resistance is also
doubled.
So if you apply an ohmic load to the output, you can only
draw the maximum power out,
when Rload=Rsource.

An example.
YOu have 2 battery sources with 2 Volts DC and each has a power supply inner resistance as 1 Ohm.
Now if you short them each out, you can draw from each source
4 Watts ( 2 Volts x 2 amps), so 8 Watts in total.

Now put both batteries in series.
Now you have 4 Volts and a total inner resistance
of 2 Ohm, so if you now short the output,
the 2 batteries deliver 4 volts and 2 amps, so also 8 Watts !

So you see, the same applies here with the AC setup of Dave by just using
transformers.
You add up source inner resistance and thus the output current
is lower and thus the energy conservation always applies...

But it could be different , if you look at pulses traveling from
both sides to a center point on a transmission line or a coil wire !

I will have a deeper look now into this.

Regards, Stefan.

[hartiberlin]

Hmm,
by looking at the first animation picture of this page:

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html

I wonder, if the added up wave hill will really have more energy ?

Normally we just build the integral over the pulse area,
so we just see, how much area is beneath the pulse curve
until the ground line to see how much energy a pulse has.

Now if you watch closely, I don?t think the
superpositioned pulse will have more area under
its curve, than the 2 single pulses alone , or am I wrong ?!

You also have to count in the duration of the pulses
and as they superimpose, the question is,
when do we start to extract energy and
what is the source resistance of the 2 pulses ?
Does the voltage just collapse, if we apply a real load resistor ?

[hartiberlin]

I get what you are saying about the battery sources and the power outputs and resistive doubling, but Dave's setup seems a bit different, for instance...

First off, I can't get any simulations going that produce the output that Dave's scopes are showing. It's a very simple setup, why aren't the sims working.

Probably, because they already count in the source and load resistance ?

Another thing, the output he is seeing in volts across the resistor is double the amplitude of the two sine waves. It certainly seems like superposition.

One thing is for sure in all this, is you are inputing two sine waves with 1V pk-pk and they somehow combine with no energy input by you, and at the output they are now 2V pk-pk, that then is a for sure 2 times energy gain. A 2V pk-pk sine wave has 4 times the energy of a 1V pk-pk sine wave...

This only applies for open output and no load resistor or
very high ohmic load resistor !
So in real world application when you want to draw
power from it, just calculate the load resistor,
where you get the most power out and you find:
Rload=Rsource.
As Rsource is doubled you must also double
Rload, so your current is 4  times less and
thus you will not draw more power out !

If this would be this simple, it would
have been discovered long ago !

Regards, Stefan.

[hartiberlin]

If you look again at:
super1.gif
(the first animation picture in:)

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html

it gets clear,
that a trick might be to put a load only at the transmission
line in the center, when the waves are at position 5 to 15.
As the 2 waves also change positions, when you
look from the center 10 you see,
that each wave is once left to the 10 and then right to the
center 10 and the other wave is first right to the 10 and
then left to the 10 !
This means for a short moment the pulse width is 2 times much wider
! This event also occurs 2 times shortly after each other !

In regard to the SM coil setup this could mean, that the bigger
pulse width corresponds to a lower frequency
and that the collector coil dimensions might just be tuned exactly to
this lower pulse width frequency component !

So then the collector coil is acting as a tuned resonance coil
which will be energized 2 times with this bigger pulse width lower
frequency pulse and as this is will transfer a lot of energy
it could be fed back and a selfresonance can be acommplished
this way...

I hope this has gotten clear somehow,
otherwise ask...

The trick seems to tap the 2 pulses 2 times as long then
via this setup which is done by tuning
the collector coil to a 2 times lower frequency via
its dimensions (length or wire  and diameter and capacitance
of wire) !

[hartiberlin]

P.S. As my hobby is music I tried to design in earlier time
harmonizer circuit for music electronics, etc...

There is an analog circuity, that can half the frequency
of a sine wave.
it works by switching the polarity of the sine wave,
when the sine wave is at the center of the lower hill (valley).
Then the sine wave is inverted at this level and will
continue down for another period,
so the frequency is halfed.
(Okay, the half frequency sine wave
then looks a bit distorted, but the principle works,
only has a bit of harmonic distortion in it)

ALSO THE AMPLITUDE IS DOUBLED this way, so it seems this new
halfed frequency has more power in it !

Maybe we can do it this way also with the SM devices, if we tune
the output coils to half the frequency of the input kick
pulses of the control coils wrapped around the output coils !