Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant

[mondrasek]

First of all agree that the torque calculated for a) and b) is the same IF m1 and m2 are part of the ball-arm system. Before you understand that these two torques are equal it's impossible to continue the discussion.

I have repeatedly stated that you are correct:  The torque calculated for a) and b) is the same (m1 and m2 are part of the ball-arm system).  I have also stated that a) and b) do not represent how the weights are supported in the diagrams for weights resting on both the guides and slots.

Omni, please refere back to the mark up of your case a) where I drew force vectors.  Let's call this case c).  It is different from case a) and case b) and you need to understand this.

In case c), m1 represents the guides.  It is NOT moving with the wheel.  It is fixed to the Earth.  So the vector portion of the force due to the mass of any weights pushing against it is pushing against the Earth and NOT the wheel.  There is no way this portion of the weight can cause rotation of the wheel.  M2 represents the slots in the wheel.  So the vector portion of the force of the mass of any weights pushing against it is able to create a torque on the wheel.  This is the only vector portion of the weight that can do so. 

The method I am showing is the CORRECT method to resolve the forces on the wheel.  The mass of each weight is being supported by either the slots alone, or is being supported by both the guide and the slot.  Any weight being supported by the guides is simply resting on the Earth and is NOT causing a torque on the wheel.

[Omnibus]

@mondrasek,

Of course, that's correct:

In case c), m1 represents the guides.  It is NOT moving with the wheel.  It is fixed to the Earth.  So the vector portion of the force due to the mass of any weights pushing against it is pushing against the Earth and NOT the wheel.  There is no way this portion of the weight can cause rotation of the wheel.  M2 represents the slots in the wheel.  So the vector portion of the force of the mass of any weights pushing against it is able to create a torque on the wheel.  This is the only vector portion of the weight that can do so.

and that's what @eisenficker2000 is taking into account, not you.

[mondrasek]

Eisenficker2000's vectors do not correctly show the forces due to the mass of each weight.  They always show the force vector on the wheel perpendicular to the moment arm (line from the weight CoG to the wheel axle).  But the weights are NOT in contact with a surface that is on this moment arm.  They are, in fact, in contact with the slots.  And the ANGLE of the slots is not the same as the angle of the moment arm.

Nowhere in your calculations have you looked at the correct angle that the weights are is in contact with the wheel.  Instead, you are assuming a contact angle that is always normal to the moment arm.  And this is not correct.

Using a force vector perpendicular to the moment arm as you have been doing does not take into account the CORRECT contact angle of the ball on the wheel.  That is why the vector diagram must first be drawn as I have shown, with the force vector due to the weight first as perpendicular to the SLOT.  Then the portion of this resultant vector that is normal to the moment arm angle is calculated as it is the true vector that is applying torque to the wheel.

[eisenficker2000]

@Mondrasek You are right. I did not take into account the effect of the slot in the wheel. If the (yellow) slot was perpendicular to the center of the wheel, the yellow slot. I could have used: vector v1 to v2 to get the force alongside the track and then get the resulting force v5....

But the (white) slot is not perpendicular to the track. From v1 to v3 resulting force on the slot. From there to the resulting force v4, thus resulting in a torque that is significantly less.

Explaining why the model does not show that resulting torque as seen from my wrong first calculations

Grin I did make a good NOT working model...else I would  have kept doubting my engineering skills  

[eisenficker2000]

@Mondrasek And now the good way....

But the (white) slot is not perpendicular to the track. From v1 to resulting force caused by track v2. from v2 to v3, resulting force on the slot. From there to the resulting force v4..