Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant

[Cloxxki]

The scissor action of the slots and ramps together (very shallow angle between them) forces the weight to be propelled by a greater distance (height>work) PER DEGREE than even when it had been connected to the rim (FL).
Dusty's most recent build showed a torque so great that the weight was jammed in place. One degree of the wheel might have required the weight to displace perhaps as much as several meters. It doesn't get much clearer than that: the slot+ramp system can create huge torque peaks.

If you pitch a baseball at 100mph, the torque required may well be greater than it sitting at the end of a level rod between pitch hill and base hole. Mass, torque, either way : you can't get a thing for free.

[Omnibus]

@mondrasek,

Not so, the torque on the horizontal arm is only created by the vertical component of the given mass (remember, without the given spherical mass there is no torque, no matter what support there is on the arm). A given mass creating, say, 10kg vertical force can only create that much and no more, no matter what weightless supports are installed to hold the sphere to the arm of same length L. Supports cannot create mass (weight).

The vertical component on the support you're talking about is part of the 10kg force which is set in stone. No more. That's how much we have to begin with.

The cherry-pit case is a completely different story, not applicable here. In the cherry-pit case we have actually existing counteracting forces which compensate each other and a steady-state of the pit cannot be distinguished from a situation whereby no forces are acting on the pit. This isn't the case here. Here we're talking about uncompensated forces which readily demonstrate themselves. In absence of a sphere there's no vertical force. When sphere is present the vertical force is only as much as is supplied by the mass of the sphere, no more. No constructive details can change that weight-creating mass.

[Cloxxki]

@mondrasek,

Not so, the torque on the horizontal arm is only created by the vertical component of the given mass (remember, without the given spherical mass there is no torque, no matter what support there is on the arm). A given mass creating, say, 10kg vertical force can only create that much and no more, no matter what weightless supports are installed to hold the sphere to the arm of same length L. Supports cannot create mass (weight).

The vertical component on the support you're talking about is part of the 10kg force which is set in stone. No more. That's how much we have to begin with.

The cherry-pit case is a completely different story, not applicable here. In the cherry-pit case we have actually existing counteracting forces which compensate each other and a steady-state of the pit cannot be distinguished from a situation whereby no forces are acting on the pit. This isn't the case here. Here we're talking about uncompensated forces which readily demonstrate themselves. In absence of a sphere there's no vertical force. When sphere is present the vertical force is only as much as is supplied by the mass of the sphere, no more. No constructive details can change that weight-creating mass.

Your arguments seem quite valid for a static wheel. In a rotating one, the cherry pit/scissor action makes the affected weight the one with the greatest acceleration and possibly even greatest velocity, vertically.

[mondrasek]

Omnibus, I am not an instructor.  I have tried to teach you what you do not or are unwilling to understand.  And so I will once again recommend that you find a qualified instructor in physics or mechanics if you want to pursue this further.

It is very clear that the forces needed to support a spherical weight by two surfaces can each be much greater than the weight.  It is those forces, not the weight, that are acting on the wheel.  I cannot say it any clearer.  I am sorry that I cannot find a way to explain this that you can understand.

[mondrasek]

Your arguments seem quite valid for a static wheel. In a rotating one, the cherry pit/scissor action makes the affected weight the one with the greatest acceleration and possibly even greatest velocity, vertically.

Cloxxki, the torque analysis is only for the static case.  So yes, it does not show how any dynamic forces are interacting.  We only got into the static torque calculations when I tried to show that the pendulum type motion and eventual settling point demonstrated by the WM2D simulation did in fact result in a position that could manually be calculated to have no torque.  But there is a case that can be made that once under speed, the wheel would work by some other phenomenon than just weight imbalance.  This is not supported by the sim, but also could be an effect the sim cannot predict.  I personally do not believe there is anything yet revealled that leaves any hope for that, but I would not dissuade you or any others from ferreting it out.

M.