Please, Please, look at this video!

[Low-Q]

I have simulated this idea a little bit, but haven't calculated the energies going around in this setup.

What I found is this:

1. When the round magnets are together and the bars are fully separated, the counter-magnets on the bars provide a repelling force that is greater than the attraction between the round magnets and the bars.

2. When the round magnets are apart, and the bars are fully separated, the counter-magnets on the bars provides a repelling force that is less than the attraction between the round magnets and the bars.

3. When the round magnets are apart, and the bars are at its closest, the counter-magnets on the bars provides a repelling force that is greater than the attraction between the round magnets and the bars.

4. When the round magnets are together, and the bars are at its closest, the counter-magnets on the bars provides a repelling force that is less than the attraction between the round magnets and the bars.

So there is an unlinearity in how the round magnets are affecting the bars when they are apart or together.

What I can tell is that this unlinearity is counterforcing the system. In how great manner, I cannot say at the moment, as I havent done calculations from many samples in the positions between these four basic positions. Because if we only focus on these four positions, the motor will run. The question is how the force times distance is providing to the system in all positions between the basic four.

I'm going out, playing with my kids now. So I will take the time to do some simulations in the evening - if my wife allows me to

Br.

Vidar

[broli]

Vidar your experiment has proven that it's critical that one should tune the strength of the repelling magnets by bring the magnets together and closing the bars on them. Then you should adjust the repulsion force in such a way that it just takes your pinky finger to open up the bars. This is best done by putting some screw system that allows you to adjust the position of these repelling magnets easily.

It's best to start out with strong repulsing magnets and then adjust them. Rather than have weak magnets that even stuck all the way together are not enough to cancel the attraction of the main magnets to the bars.

[Low-Q]

Vidar your experiment has proven that it's critical that one should tune the strength of the repelling magnets by bring the magnets together and closing the bars on them. Then you should adjust the repulsion force in such a way that it just takes your pinky finger to open up the bars. This is best done by putting some screw system that allows you to adjust the position of these repelling magnets easily.

It's best to start out with strong repulsing magnets and then adjust them. Rather than have weak magnets that even stuck all the way together are not enough to cancel the attraction of the main magnets to the bars.

Yes, it can be tuned. The barmagnets are separated when the round magnets are apart, so there must be a repelling counterforce that is suitable from that basis, or should the repelling force be based on when the round magnets are together? what do you think @broli?
If we can manage to configure it in a way that the repelling counterforce balance the attraction force at any distance between the bars, we can have a equalizing counterforce.

So what is happening when the round magnets slams together - when the bars are still apart?
Then the round magnets does not spread the magnetic fields so far out anymore that they affect the bars with the same force as when they was apart. So the repelling forces between the bars will then relatively increase, making it harder for the bars from going together to complete the loop. Making the counterforce based on when the round magnets are together, this repelling force will be even greater, and in a greater manner counterforce the system. Hopefully that counterforce will be relatively reduced enough when the barmagnets are suppose to go together when the round magnets has slammed together.

There is also another thing. When the bars is present, the attraction force between the round magnets are not so high, even if the bars are separated. That means the round magnets will not slam into eachother with the same brutal force as they do without the bars present. This is just an additional weakness that "helps" the system to halt.

I get more and more confused the more I think of how the forces and mechanisms works together. So I will now make a model in FEMM to see what is happening. Magnets are hard to fool - that is for sure. So we'll see.

Vidar

[broli]

or should the repelling force be based on when the round magnets are together? what do you think @broli?

Yes! The rest of your post is over complicating things for nothing.

[Low-Q]

Yes! The rest of your post is over complicating things for nothing.

Now i have done some simple simulations.

I have simulated with 20 x 4 x 4cm iron bars. 2x2x4cm slide-magnets, and 5x5x4cm counterforce-magnets. I have use 4cm as depth in FEMM - depth must be constant for all magnets and parts simulated.

When the bars are closest, and the slide-magnets are closest, I have a counterforce-magnet force at 0,3N - the closest to zero i got unless i want to use 1 week to tune it perfectly.
The attraction force between the slide-magnets are now 52N.

When I move the slide-magnets 6 + 6 cm apart, and still have the bars closed, the repelling force between the slide-magnets and the bars are now -65N, which means they are attracting with 65N force. I think this has to do with the influence between the slide-magnets and the counterforce-magnets.

So then I take apart the bars 3cm away in both directions while the slide-magnets are still apart. Now the repelling force between the bars are 83N, an increased repelling force of 148N. There is no attraction between the slide-magnets (!!) - well it is somthing like 0.01N or so.

So then I push the slide-magnets together, while the bars are still apart. The repelling force between the bars do now increased from 83N to 104N. The attraction between the slide-magnets are at closest about 400N, an increase of 148N.

Something tells me that the net force in the system will be the force difference between the bars and between the slide-magnets. 148N - 148N = 0.

This is not an opinion, it is just results from a simulation. So please do not attack me personally

Vidar