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Pulsing a Permanent Magnet on/off

Started by gravityblock, April 16, 2009, 11:38:40 PM

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0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Low-Q

Quote from: gravityblock on April 22, 2009, 01:13:48 PM
That's what I was thinking. It doesn't take as much energy to connect and separate two pieces of metal that have different poles of the magnet attached to each piece, than to physically flip the magnet on the metal.

The idea was to have a north pole attached to a metal piece and to have a south pole of another magnet attached to a metal piece for the stator.  When the two ends of the metal pieces are attached together, the rotor magnet will slide pass the stator with very little to no resistance.  Once the rotor magnet gets slightly pass the second half of the two attached metal pieces, then we will separate the two metal pieces to repel the the rotor.  There is still a small amount of energy required to separate the metals, but I think this small amount of energy is much less than the energy gained by the temporary permanent magnets repelling the rotor magnet.
I think there is an overlooked issue in the explanation. If the metal piece is easy to magnetize, it will also be easy to magnetize it with the passing magnet. The passing magnet is also a attracted to the metal piece itself in addition to ita magnetized condition, where the distance will determine how much influence there will be between those two. That distance and the relationship will also be a loss accordingly in addition to the energy required to break free the temporary magnetic field. If you include that loss (energy requirement) too, and still got energy to spare, this will work. But I have a small doubt that the whole picture is easily seen. All those small, but important details that follows a solved problem, will often be an obstacle to get the machine to work.

You can try it and experiment a little, and you'll probably see that there is much more unexpected details to a magnetmotor than the intention and the idea on how it might work.

Vidar

gravityblock

Quote from: Low-Q on April 22, 2009, 06:54:21 PM
I think there is an overlooked issue in the explanation. If the metal piece is easy to magnetize, it will also be easy to magnetize it with the passing magnet. The passing magnet is also a attracted to the metal piece itself in addition to ita magnetized condition, where the distance will determine how much influence there will be between those two. That distance and the relationship will also be a loss accordingly in addition to the energy required to break free the temporary magnetic field. If you include that loss (energy requirement) too, and still got energy to spare, this will work. But I have a small doubt that the whole picture is easily seen. All those small, but important details that follows a solved problem, will often be an obstacle to get the machine to work.

You can try it and experiment a little, and you'll probably see that there is much more unexpected details to a magnetmotor than the intention and the idea on how it might work.

Vidar

I've already taken all of this into account.  I haven't seen any evidence of the metal being magnetized by the passing magnet.  The "sweet spot" that was mentioned in previous posts avoids the magnet being attracted to the metal and still allows it to be repelled with plenty of force.

This may not work....but I do know that trying to brute force your way pass the sticky spot will never give the results we're looking for.

I'll try to make a drawing and video of this soon.  I want to investigate the reed switches and other options for completing and breaking the circuit between the two metal pieces first.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

God will confuse the wise with the simplest things of this world.  He will catch the wise in their own craftiness.

Golden Mean

Quote from: gyulasun on April 22, 2009, 05:54:32 PM

Edit:  Golden Mean:  probably your MOSFET you using has a lower breakdown voltage than the flyback pulse created at switch off.  IF you specify your present type I could suggest some other types or if you could draw even a handmade schematics on you pulsed setup I could overview it, ok?


Thank you for your excellent reply and offer to assist.  Attached is a PDF schematic and brief explanation of the pulse motor setup.

I am uncertain about the direction of current flow from the 3 volt power supply to the gate (G) of the MOSFET transistor... 
Does the charge direction matter to trip the gate (G)?

I am uncertain about the connection to the MOSFET at the source (S) and drain (D) to get the proper direction of the charge flow to block magnetic flux in the bolt...
Should the 12 volt testing battery be connected to the source (S) or the drain (D) and in which direction?

Thank you for your consideration. ;D

Peace,
~ Golden Mean
Be the change you wish to see in the world! ~ Paraphrase from Gandhi

gravityblock

Here's a quick sketch I did.

When the two metal pieces are connected to each other, this will allow the rotor magnet to pass the stator with little to no resistance.  Once the rotor magnet is half way pass the bottom metal piece, we will disconnect the two metal pieces, which will cause the stator magnet to repel the rotor magnet.  The only thing this drawing doesn't show, is the switching mechanism to connect and disconnect the two pieces of metal.

I hope you can overlook my poor drawing capabilities.

Edit:  I made a mistake with the polarity of the magnets in the drawing.  The magnets on the rotors should be a north pole facing the stator instead of the south pole I have in the drawing.  After making this correction, you will see how the top metal piece on the stator will attract the approaching rotor magnet while the bottom metal piece of the stator will repel the rotor magnet that is moving away from the stator when they are disconnected from each other.

I hope you can understand this......lol
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

God will confuse the wise with the simplest things of this world.  He will catch the wise in their own craftiness.

gravityblock

@LowQ:

Let's divide the south pole of a magnet for illustration purposes.  This will also apply to the north pole, but we'll only talk about the south pole to keep this simple.

Half of the south pole is a good guy and the other half of the south pole is a bad guy.  The bad guy destroys all the energy that the good guy provides.  The bad guy is known as the sticky spot.  The good and bad guys can switch their roles depending on their operation.  So, you will always have a good and bad guy.

Look at my corrected drawing for a second time.  The metal pieces are separated.  The top stator will attract one of the rotor magnets while the bottom stator will repel another magnet.  These guys are both good at the same time and are both providing us with energy. 

Let's say the good guy provided 100 units of energy and the bad guy provided 100 units of energy (In a normal magnet motor the bad guy doesn't provide anything, instead he would destroy the 100 units of energy that the good guy provided).  We now have 200 units of energy.  We'll destroy the 100 units of energy that the bad guy normally doesn't provide for the connecting and disconnecting of the two stators in order to keep them both good (In a normal magnet motor, this would destroy all the energy that was gained) .  We now have 100 units of energy minus friction after a complete cycle.  A cycle is a complete pass of two rotor magnets passing both stators.  Also, the top stator in the drawing should be curved to the rotor (poor drawing).

I will agree with you that things don't always work according to what is on paper or according to theory.  Do you understand what I'm trying to say?  I'm not good at putting my thoughts in writing.   >:(
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.

God will confuse the wise with the simplest things of this world.  He will catch the wise in their own craftiness.