Closing the loop on Milkovic's two-stage mechanical oscillator?

[Omnibus]

@AnandAadhar,

Thank you very much for posting these videos. You are doing a great job and it should be encouraged. I wish there were more people like you and in this way the world will recognize sooner these discoveries.

As you may know, I visited Finsrud personally and then posted two ~45min videos of his perpetuum mobile also presenting it as the first openly demonstrated perpetuum mobile in history. There are still some subtleties, however, brought about by critics (I'm, of course, ignoring the general unsubstantiated negativism by a great many self-proclaimed experts) which I think need to be addressed and I'd like to ask you about your opinion.

One critic claimed that this is just a very efficient re-distributor of the initially imparted energy. As you know, this is not a self-starter but Finsrud has to push the ball along the track initially in order to start the machine. If it really is only an efficient re-distributor of that initially imparted energy it may go on turning for quite a few days but it will inevitably stop at one point. I know his explanation for that ceasing of motion claiming that's only due to wearing out of the parts and thus changing the initial mechanical conditions. Also, there's dust, humidity, change of temperature etc. which may play a role. But, still, supposing such factors as the stopping mechanism isn't enough as proof.

Second critic insisted that Finsrud is winding up the machine when cleaning the track with a cloth before the initial push. There's one large spring in the center (besides the many other springs which the device is sprinkled with) which that critic claims to be the driving spring after winding it up.

How would you address these two points?

[mscoffman]

How does the squeeze lamp demo prove anything?  Yes, the flashlight in hand lights up, and all the other bulbs light up.  So what?  The human hand is putting in way more energy than what is output.  Suppose the flashlight in the hand was broken and did not light up?  The experiment would not be any different.

@utilitarian;

If you mentally “OR” the output flashlights when they are “on” you are
supposed to convince yourself that this is more energy then the person
expends at the input flashlight.

It would be very easy to test if this is true by removing the lamps from
the flashlights and “OR”ing the power together electrically through diodes
into a 1000uf+ electrolytic filter capacitor.

Then build a fairly hefty Bedini mirror circuit and coil to add energy
to swing the input Pendulum, using a Neo magnet glued to the base
of it. (ie. no batteries for CF)

This would be a very simple task to get a high quality result. They
would either get it to work *or* they could stop lying with videos.

:S:MarkSCoffman

[AnandAadhar]

@AnandAadhar,

Thank you very much for posting these videos. You are doing a great job and it should be encouraged. I wish there were more people like you and in this way the world will recognize sooner these discoveries.

As you may know, I visited Finsrud personally and then posted two ~45min videos of his perpetuum mobile also presenting it as the first openly demonstrated perpetuum mobile in history. There are still some subtleties, however, brought about by critics (I'm, of course, ignoring the general unsubstantiated negativism by a great many self-proclaimed experts) which I think need to be addressed and I'd like to ask you about your opinion.

One critic claimed that this is just a very efficient re-distributor of the initially imparted energy. As you know, this is not a self-starter but Finsrud has to push the ball along the track initially in order to start the machine. If it really is only an efficient re-distributor of that initially imparted energy it may go on turning for quite a few days but it will inevitably stop at one point. I know his explanation for that ceasing of motion claiming that's only due to wearing out of the parts and thus changing the initial mechanical conditions. Also, there's dust, humidity, change of temperature etc. which may play a role. But, still, supposing such factors as the stopping mechanism isn't enough as proof.

Second critic insisted that Finsrud is winding up the machine when cleaning the track with a cloth before the initial push. There's one large spring in the center (besides the many other springs which the device is sprinkled with) which that critic claims to be the driving spring after winding it up.

How would you address these two points?

Thank you the same for posting your video's. I still wonder since what a visit of mine might add to yours.  As for those points:
Well, first of all Finsrud's machine runs for quite some more time than a few days, even though there is dust collected on the track. isn't it months? Also regular realignment of the magnets seems to be necessary. This is normal maintenance. Not an energizing action. In my opinion he has mechanically found the definition of time as the found restlessness between the basic forces of gravity and magnetism in a decreased probability of equiibrium. He is one of the few who throws light on this matter of time as a direct source of material energy.  One replication suffices to change the world of physics. Till then it is just kinetic artwork with possibly a hidden drive in the base. But I personally don't think he lies. He does not have the psychological profile of a sociopath. He is married, has children and a regular job as an art teacher.

Critical point two, studying the mechanism the spring isn't loaded but pressured by the weight of the setup. So there is no winding up with a gradual release as far as I am concerned.

[Omnibus]

@AnandAadhar,

Finsrud is an amazing man, undoubtedly -- very creative and very artistic. To see his superb work in the beautiful art gallery amidst a wheat field not far from Oslo is an experience in itself. So, visiting him is worth every bit of your time, I think. In addition, you may want to do some simple non-destructive experiments, especially involving timing, to verify there's no slowing down. I did some timing measurements with the videos I posted in Google video. There's a characteristic clack at every turn and I used WaveLab to compare the time between these clacks at the beginning and at the end of the vid. I didn't find a pronounced slowing down and there seemed to be even acceleration at certain moments. These studies are inconclusive, however, and Finsrud didn't answer my asking him to visit him again with the intention to do some more studies on the machine. The timing studies have to be done for an extended periods, longer than just the 45min in my videos, using an adequate measuring instrument, a data acquisition system, that can objectively record these clacks for further analysis. There are some other non-intrusive simple experiments that can be done to determine conclusively as to whether or not we're indeed dealing with a perpetuum mobile. Otherwise, I tend to agree with your understanding regarding the device being an efficient re-distributor as well as the winding issue. Unfortunately, that's just a hunch while we need hard evidence.

[Merg]

You should move the discussion on Milkovic's oscillator to the main topic, so that others can follow every new progress in one place
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1763.1380

@AnandAadhar

you should read these two papers published by Milkovic team on attempts to mechanically close the loop

Mechanical Feedback Loop Problems and Possible Solutions for the Two-Stage Oscillator of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Mechanical_Feedback_Loop.pdf

Keys of Understanding Gravity Machines of Veljko Milkovic
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/Images/Jovan_Marjanovic_Key_of_Gravity_Machines.pdf