Bedini SSG - self sustaining

[plengo]

@mscoffman,

I am not sure I found the "missing link" but I hope so. Thanks for your observations.

You are right, it MUST be a 48 vdc modified fan aka imhotep. Concerning the voltage to 7 digits, I only mention that if one wants to be "sick like me" and watch those poor numbers in 3 meters until you die, only them one may be able to notice that pattern.

In the case of a microcontroller , the only thing necessary is the controller to measure the voltages to a certain accuracy and calculate the "moving average". If that average goes below a certain point (whatever is the choice one makes, lets say for example below 1volts from the last hour) them the switching A or B or combination of both should be done.

In my tests when I am manually watching and switching I realized that when the voltage gets to a max value (but it fluctuates a lot in between) and start to decline at least 0.005 volts from that max (also fluctuating a lot in between) I force the Switch SW1 + SW2 A or B depending on the state of the voltages of all batteries. SO think that the microcontroller CAN watch voltages at 3 digits accuracy and that will be enough for the a "program" to calculate the deviation and average it to find if it is going UP or going DOWN. For a person watching the numbers it will be necessary to have 5 at least or more digits to SEE that fluctuation and make an rough estimate to where the voltage is going UP or Down.

Concerning the microcontroller programming skills, I have a good friend that are helping me with the task (Groundloop) but anyone is welcome to participate and come up with ideas and tests. This friend of mine also have already a 6 channel switching device using transistors that can switch batteries from a previous project of hours from the Tesla Switch project here in this forum. So no relays to be used in the future.

And you also right concerning the fan being able to stop when the switching happens so that is a problem for now but I am not going to die for it yet.

And also the total voltage is in noway a demonstration of overunity (thank you for saying that, I totally forgot to mention that) but IF I can make the fan run for years in those batteries without ANY external power, i think i achieved what I want and it would be great to improve that to a bigger design.

Fausto.

[mondrasek]

b) While I think that max(Voltage batA + Voltage batB + Voltage batC)
is a probably valid way to measure the system state of charge, it is
not a technical proof of the the total energy state of charge
in the system. Just don't get too disappointed if the above is true.

While playing around with a 12V Bedini/Imhotep fan I tried charging NiCd batteries.  I immediately noticed that charging with the BEMF spikes (~300V) would cause the batteries to charge to a higher voltage.  A hicap 9V NiCd (nominal 8.4V) would charge to 9.8V.  An AA 1.5V NiCd (nominal 1.2V) would charge to 1.4V.  I did not charge these for a long time, just until the voltage stabilized, and in all cases they did not run a load as they had almost no current.  But then I could charge them all with a normal NiCd charger and they would charge to the same higher voltage and also have current to run a load.  I never learned exactly why this happened and did not pursue testing to see if the overall energy state of charge in the higher voltage batteries was greater than that in their original lower voltage forms.  My *guess* is that the high voltage charging spikes of the Bedini/Imhotep fan "conditioned" these batteries so that they charged to a higher voltage but probably held the same or less less overall charge.  They have never appeared to run longer than their unconditioned counterparts (actually less) but that is purely a subjective observation.

Reading about high voltage (Bedini type) charging of SLA batteries will lead you to information on "conditioning" of that battery type.  IIRC the lead oxide crystals form finer patterns on the plates leading to a visibly lighter gray coating on the plates than with conventional charging.  I do not remember reading anything that says the peak voltage increases like I witnessed in my small NiCd batteries.  But if they do, you might be seeing a voltage rise with an equal or greater drop in current capacity leading to no overall gain.  I am not sure how you would check to see if your batteries are achieving a higher overall energy state of charge and not just a higher peak voltage.

Good luck with your research.  I look forward to reading your results.

M.

[plengo]

@mondrasek,

Thanks for the comment.

My observations with Bedini system and charging batteries are exactly the same as yours. What surprised me here in this variation of mine (which is not very logical to EEs with diode D2 and the extra inverted B3 and B2) is that I noticed the total voltage increasing instead of decreasing.

I never had a Bedini system increasing ALL the batteries overall voltage in a system as whole before. I was very surprised and sick, so why not play more?

Right now, I dont believe I am at OU at all just a weird behavior that is allowing me to keep going with that fan for 7 days now. Let's see if it will continue charging the batteries and at least maintaining the total voltages and the fan spinning or not.

Actually, the original idea I had when I started this "way to much time doing that already" experiment is that I was reading about Rosemary Ainslie and Gotluc experiments and I thought: Why not instead of using a resistor use a Battery and instead of having a regular pulser why not use an SSG so that i can test this too. That's when the extra two batteries came in place and the diode D2.

I was surprised also that B3 even charge at all!!!

Fausto.

[bigface]

why don't you guys use ammeters to measure how much power is actually being used by the chargin battery and how much power is absorbed by the others.  Or use a device that measures the instantaneous voltage and current every second or so and have it graph V*I of all three batteries.  The energy is the area under the graph.  Judging energy using only the battery voltage doesn't seem very scientific.

[plengo]

@bigface,

thank you for your comments.

I agree with you that only measuring voltages is not the only option but I disagree that the method used now is not scientific. It is scientific as much as one can observe, measure, repeat and theorize formulating possible future outcomes based on the analysis of the data. I agree it is now missing huge amounts of data to be established as an accurate evidence of the fact.

First we need more people replicating its initial aspects to invest more man power into it and may be than create more data gathering methods that would satisfy a greater audience.

The reason I am not caring much about the total power in versus power out is because there are many other forums discussing that right now including the source of the Bedini motors at the yahoo group which I am also a member. I also had done over 200 charge and discharge tests with accurate computerized equipment measuring exactly that, with tons of data and nice excel sheets showing pretty graphics, including showing sporadic COP > 1.

This will not demonstrate anything either. My goal in this thread is to show this weird behavior (at least for me) where the total voltages are increasing as one exploits this phenomena and IF I can keep the fan spinning for months who really cares? It would be OU for me right there (if that happens).

To be a little bit more specific this particular system of mine is running at about 20ma of consumption at about 12 vdc or so on the input.

If you are interested in investing your time with more advanced process, please, participate with your experiment and share your results.

Fausto.