Ultracaps tested for excess energy

[Mannix]

The proof of excess can only be proven beyond doubt to be useful  by using one charged cap and transfer charge to others ..then back to the origional
It sounds simple but we have to remove thermal loss.

The measurements look fantastic but they must be of practical use.
We know so little about the limits of our theory

What ever you do, start with one charged cap

Nice to see you have opened up Paul


Great work

[MileHigh]

Paul:

May I ask what were you using to measure the voltage and the current for your setup?  Is it some sort of microcontroller-based setup and you are using the A/D in the microcontroller?

Also, how are you measuring the capacitance?  It's a serious question, you are not indicating how you are doing it.

I can see a possible alternative explanation for your observations.  I ask you, and everyone reading this thread to look again at Paul's data again and try to come up with an alternative explanation.  It's a challenge.

If confirmed, then it appears the bcap behaves as if it has less capacitance when high current is used. When the bcap was charged at 199mA, the capacitance was 535F. So if we place a load across the bcap and drain it at 42.1mA, would it have 632F? If true, then it indicates excess energy.

You have me puzzled here Paul.  Why would this indicate excess energy?  Again, this is a serious question, how do you arrive at this conclusion?

MileHigh

[broli]

PL it seems you have the means to go all out. I think you should do a few high resolution tests. Meaning sampling voltage and current every hundreds of a second and plotting it. So you take C=I*t/V and make dC=I*dt/V out of it. This way you can get a very accurate graph of the behaviour of the capacitance during the charging period and maybe learn the exact behavior even better and exploit that.

[PaulLowrance]

Paul:

May I ask what were you using to measure the voltage and the current for your setup?  Is it some sort of microcontroller-based setup and you are using the A/D in the microcontroller?

Also, how are you measuring the capacitance?  It's a serious question, you are not indicating how you are doing it.

I can see a possible alternative explanation for your observations.  I ask you, and everyone reading this thread to look again at Paul's data again and try to come up with an alternative explanation.  It's a challenge.

Measurements taken from last week were simple. A current source was placed on the ultracap, and it was timed how long it took for the ultracap voltage to change by a certain amount. The equation is,

F = I * t / dV

where F is the capacitance in farads, I is DC current, t is time, and dV is the change in voltage.

These experiments were done at a slow rate. The ultracap voltage changed less than 0.1mV after removing the current, except a few cases where it changed by ~ 0.1mV, which is negligible relative to dV.

The recent measurements, days ago, on discharging the ultracap is a different story. I'll talk about this after the data logging.

The data logger I'll be using for now is a DIY circuit. It consists of a simple 8 channel ADC0809 with appropriate circuit connected to a PC parallel port. PC software will log the data on hard drive.

You have me puzzled here Paul.  Why would this indicate excess energy?  Again, this is a serious question, how do you arrive at this conclusion?

It's conventional physics,

E = 0.5 * C * V^2

Using the example, the energy required to charge to capacitor to say 1V is 0.5 * 550F * 1V^2 = 275 joules. The energy gained is 0.5 * 5500F * 1V^2 = 2750 joules. Ten times the energy gain.



Paul

[Yucca]

Yo Paul,

I don´t see any solid data to support OU claims in this area yet, do you?

Maybe the whole boost cap thing is just an advertisement to sell caps.

I have vouched $500 toward the OU prize money, at the moment I think my money is safe lol. Of course nothing would please me more than to see Stefan validate GMs bodacious claim.

With regard to your RC timings indicating varying capacitance, I agree you need to use higher constant charging currents and also over a wider voltage range from say 0.5V to 2V. Also use a stout 10 ohm resistor to time the discharge over a data logger or slowtimebase DSO to audit the caps energy.

If, (and thats a big if), any magic is happening then I suspect short sharp pulse charging might encourage it.