STEORN DEMO LIVE & STREAM in Dublin, December 15th, 10 AM

[Omnibus]

@Omega_0,

Can't agree more that the coil without core has to be the first thing to study. That's why we were discussing yesterday how to dismantle the transformer and pull the coil out. Will try that today. As for calorimetry, like I said, it's a tricky business. I talked already to two very reputable labs to have it done with their sensitive calorimeters but they declined. I will reiterate now, calorimetry will settle the issue conclusively only if the outcome is positive (that is, more heat than energy input). If negative, the question will still remain open because there will be no evidence that the effect isn't at the expense of cooling of the surroundings which is still a violation of thermodynamic laws. Thus, ways have to be sought to solve the problem by purely electrical measurements.

As I said above, the remaining parameter to juggle with (having no experimental evidence that dissipative resistance R is frequency dependent) is the capacitance. It was already pointed out by @lumen and @gyulasun that it can be an alternative mechanism to be considered. Indeed, at the studied frequencies the coil may develop capacitance which, as I already said, can provide an alternative route for the current passage which might be the reason for overestimation of the dissipative losses in the current studies. The presence of core makes it complicated to assess from the results presented what that capacitance contribution might be (had there been no core the results, as they are now, would've clearly shown that capacitance is no problem). So, first thing is to take the transformer apart and see what's going on in the air coil.

[broli]

@broli,

Here are the data in the interesting region between 40 and 42MHz redone with the setup in a Faraday cage:

Thanks for the experiment. Is your vertical axis in percentage, because it seems a bit big for COP :p. But the results seem completely unfazed. Just to be really sure, I hope a radio stops working at this frequency range in that cage  .

@Omega_0

The air coil can't disprove anything though. Either it shows the same  exact OU (which I doubt) and makes the core just an amplifier? Or it  doesn't and the OU is due to the use of the core. Either being some  unknown core phenomena of domain shifting/saturation/resonance freq or  other.

I don't want to stir attention away but this is a good example of not taking things for granted:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4333.0

At first sight it's not even a good transformer as the iron is first saturated. Then struck with a very precise frequency that causes some quantum magic to happen and release neutrons which transmutes the metal and can cause current flow in a "secondary".

I don't know whether omnibus is seeing this as this happens on all the harmonics of the frequency. But the French article speaks of 9 significant digit accuracy for copper, which is quite accurate.

[Omega_0]

@Omega_0

The air coil can't disprove anything though. Either it shows the same  exact OU (which I doubt) and makes the core just an amplifier? Or it  doesn't and the OU is due to the use of the core. Either being some  unknown core phenomena of domain shifting/saturation/resonance freq or  other.

If the "OU effect" is present without the core, it will be even more interesting and even more doubtful. If there is no OU with air-core, we settle the measurement error debate for once and all.

So its worth doing. I have the data capture program ready for my USB scope and will be able to start experiment with a simple coil this weekend.

[Omega_0]

@Omega_0,

As I said above, the remaining parameter to juggle with (having no experimental evidence that dissipative resistance R is frequency dependent) is the capacitance. It was already pointed out by @lumen and @gyulasun that it can be an alternative mechanism to be considered. Indeed, at the studied frequencies the coil may develop capacitance which, as I already said, can provide an alternative route for the current passage which might be the reason for overestimation of the dissipative losses in the current studies.

There is no way to isolate the capacitance from the coil, but there is a way to check its effect by adding a small but known capacitor in parallel. If the OU is unaffected, then it is purely due to other reasons.

On the other hand, if you see a big increase in OU after adding the cap, then we can suspect the coil parasitic capacitance to be a culprit. I guess you have done that, but its worth repeating with a current probe.

As for calorimetry, at this stage its not that necessary to get a high-end calorimeter. You have a high end thermometer which should be sufficient. I'm suggesting a simple experiment :

From the graph, at 41MHz there is 500 times energy (or is it 5 times ?), so the temperature should be 5 times at 41Mhz compared to that at 0Hz (DC), at an equal value of Ein = Vin*Iin*Time.
So simply measure the core temperature for a certain time and capture the data, once at 41MHz and second at DC. Say at the value of  Ein=10, you get T1=1500K and T2=300K, you have a good case.

[Omnibus]

If the "OU effect" is present without the core, it will be even more interesting and even more doubtful. If there is no OU with air-core, we settle the measurement error debate for once and all.

So its worth doing. I have the data capture program ready for my USB scope and will be able to start experiment with a simple coil this weekend.

I took out the core (thanks @LarryC) and now the OU effect is even slightly higher. Now I'm trying to unwind it an rewind it on another plastic and see what happens. Will try to answer also @broli's question about the number of turns. Tedious job. Will report as soon as I'm done.