Cooling effects in Steorn eOrbo

[PaulLowrance]

You are seeing things relative to other things, you have to look at the whole picture. Yes the permeability changes but it doesn't change uniformly throughout the toroid in the ON state. If the field of the coil produces 1 tesla inside the core then after adding the magnet then it will have one side at about 1.5 Tesla field while the other side becomes 0.5 Tesla. This is what the simulation shows. So part of the coil wants to induce a forward EMF since it sees a field decrease while the other part of the coil wants to induce backwards EMF since it sees a field increase. Both of these actions cancel out. discovery.

That would be true for a perfectly linear magnetic core with infinite saturation, but I was using realistic iron in my FEMM sims. 

[k4zep]

The attached image is where the magnets are located,

Hi Paul,

With the magnets as shown N/S then S/N hitting coil, you would get that scope shot unless the magnets were perfectly match and aligned which they obviously are not as shown in scope.  To repeat, if alignment and field strength on both sides were perfectly matched you would not get that deviation.  IF you use just a N or S on both sides of the coil, you will get nothing if alignment is perfect.  The double hump in the middle is a excellent indication of mismatching in alignment/field.   Seen that many times before in "eat crow" days...... 

But why is it cooling.  DON't change that power supply bias setting!!!!!  !!!!!   !!!!!

Respectfully,
Ben

[PaulLowrance]

Hi Paul,
Just read the whole thread up to here.  Now that the he said, I said, etc. is done lets get down to the good stuff. 

In you magnetic cooling experiment, exactly what is your schematic.  Is the coil/resistor/ supply in a simple loop and you are monitoring the bidirectional voltage shift from either magnetic induced inductance change or pure generator action, hence emf voltage shift or AC component as seen across that resistor.  That, I assume is what you have been saying about the motor having back EMF when biased on by the coil. 

I realize that the core is essentially a 1 turn loop and by mechanically modulating the field in that core it would cause voltage induced in the coil hence reflected into/at the PS.  As the basic toroid/magnetic torque loop interface is demonstrated to be bi-directional as far as current flow is concerned, torque production is not changed/effected during 1 cycle (I'm that old).  The additive and subtractive currents would cancel out as far as torque is concerned and while there is an induced emf in the loop, it has a average of zero extra energy used from the Power supply (PS) due to its being an AC component (An AC modulated DC bias).  It would not tend to slow the motor down as in conventional circuits and would not increase power consumption from the supply long term and this is what we are looking for.  So my consensus is that we are both right and the effects are as desired......Vote overwhelming for Paul and Ben!

Also the youtube video description was update. There's no current going through the toroid coil, well, not unless you want to consider the pico or nano amps produced by the scope. 

I still can't believe what I saw, even though it still needs to be redone a lot better. It was just 100% purely mechanical magnetic interactions. No coil current, well unless it was pulsing to whatever it was connected to. The DMM was off, the scope was on, but I'll have to check to see if the toroid coil was connected to the power supply. Usually I disconnect the power supply leads. So it's just 4 NdFeB magnets spinning over a toroid. The toroid has a lot of turns with fine wire, so there's probably a good amount of parallel capacitance, but that should make no measurable difference at these low frequencies.

See the drawings I posted in this thread. It shows how the magnets on one side are situated. Perhaps another drawing is in order so you can see how the magnets are situated on both sides. The other side is the same, except the magnetic polarities are the opposite is all.

If someone is logging into your account and mucking with contents, change the password? 

Respectfully
Ben

I did that a week or so ago. Still looks like someone or thing is logging into my account. If anyone gets any weird PM's from me, then maybe I did not send it! A month or so ago they used to get th eir kicks by disabling my notifications, so it seems they no longer care if I even know about this, as it's so obvious.

[PaulLowrance]

Hi Paul,

With the magnets as shown N/S then S/N hitting coil, you would get that scope shot unless the magnets were perfectly match and aligned which they obviously are not as shown in scope.  To repeat, if alignment and field strength on both sides were perfectly matched you would not get that deviation.  IF you use just a N or S on both sides of the coil, you will get nothing if alignment is perfect.  The double hump in the middle is a excellent indication of mismatching in alignment/field.   Seen that many times before in "eat crow" days...... 

That scope shot was actually taken before I hand adjusted the magnets. I was able to get the coil output down a lot more, but still not perfect, lol.  So in the video the magnets were better situated such that it had less interaction with the toroid coil.

But why is it cooling.  DON't change that power supply bias setting!!!!!  !!!!!   !!!!!

Respectfully,
Ben

lol, I won't change a thing, but there was no current in the toroid coil during that video footage. The dremel motor was rotating it, but weird thing is that a lot of time all of a sudden the dremel motor rpm would drop or increase by magnitudes. Very strange effect by itself.

I still don't know if the temperature dropped below ambient. That's what the IR gun showed, but this still needs lots of careful repeats to make sure.

[PaulLowrance]

After checking just now, the toroid was connected to two power supplies (15V each, both in-series to get 30V, no common ground), but they were off and not connected to wall 120VAC socket.

Only last detail is what was the rpm of the dremel motor? Someone could probably find out from the video.

Anyhow, I have a headache over this, didn't eat lunch or dinner, lol. Tomorrow is another day. 

Hope I don't have nightmares of freezing the death, lol. Anyhow, thanks everyone for the ears.