double pendulum lever

[mr_bojangles]

well this is an idea that i thought of today and was wondering what everyone else thought


A. axle of lever
B. pendulum weight
C. axle with slip ring
D. counterweight


lets assume that we have the ability to "lock" the pendulum in mid swing,  as well as locking all the axles

starting with the picture as step one.

1. unfix pendulum weights (B), allow them to swing as far as possible (obviously a little less than the height it fell) and lock them in place again at other side.

2. unlock slip ring (C),  position of counterweights (D) keeps the rod holing the pendulum upright in respect to the axle of the lever, overbalance, causing it to lift lever with a force equal to the difference of distance between both weights in respect to the axle

ok so that drawing was for a concept


this is my theory

if we didn't have a method to keep the pendulum upright, we would lose an extra degree for every degree the lever lifted.

there are better ways of doing this, this was the easiest to draw first, a few mechanical

ok so lets say the height of the pendulum is a little bit taller than the length of the lever

if we start the pendulum's 45* from the rod
with the left pendulum, the weight (B) will now be about the length of the lever away from the axle

the right pendulum swings and stops almost over the axle, the distance being almost nothing

we now have a force equal to the weight of the pendulum weight acting upon the lever to overbalance them


let me know what you guys think, obviously friction is the issue, oh and i wonder what would happen if you hung another couple pendulums on the bottom of the lever

[mr_bojangles]

essentially it breaks down to how much energy is lost to friction on the swing of the pendulum

i feel like this set up could work if we lose less than 10 degrees per pendulum, per oscillation


heres a clearer , if anyone knows how much force is needed to keep a pendulum oscillating, and be so kind as to share it would be greatly appreciated, obviously it would be more specific to the pendulum, but i was wondering what someone thinks could be a safe guess as to how much a typical pendulum's amplitude decreases per oscillation

[mr_bojangles]

well the idea is, i came up with a way to allow the pendulums to maintain a perpendicular relationship with the event horizon while the lever itself oscillates most like between 10*

@P-motion, i am glad you think there will be little resistance, thats the key element in this operation. i really like the idea of a moving fulcrum but i havent figured out a way to make it turn itself,

as for this set up,

an easier way to make it more efficient would be to start the pendulums out at 180*

this would place the weights at the maximum distance, allowing for the full weight of both pendulums to be a slight distance away from the axle, giving a torque equal to the weight of both pendulums + the distance from axle + the distance the edge of the lever travels (angular distance of lever in respect to event horizon)

our input is still only the friction lost in each pendulum, output equaling the total mass of both weights plus some

im a little rusty on my trig but so far it looks promising, my calculations have been based on a stab in the dark assumption that my pendulums will lose less than 10* per oscillation


anyone have any ideas?

[mr_bojangles]

heres a mechanical approach

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8670.new#new

[mr_bojangles]

well i would start the swing at a right angle in respect to the fulcrum,

my  is to figure out a way to lock the pendulum in place when it reaches its vertex, and using the position of the weights in respect to the fulcrum

if the lever is 4' long, and the height of the pendulum is 4', starting the pendulums out parallel with the event horizon,

we locked the weights in place, and there is now a weight (x), first weight would be resting on the edge of the lever(2' if the length of the lever is 4, that places it on the other side of the lever, with the fulcrum resting half way, being 2') , the other being 6' away from the fulcrum (4' for its height and another 2 for starting out at 2' away from the fulcrum)

the output is equal to the set up on the left


now if we let the pendulums free fall, they lose height, to be safe lets say were going to lose 30 degrees for both pendulums (gross over estimate)

this means the energy is equivalent to moving 2x a distance of 30 degrees, which is the same as moving x 60 degrees, right? because we know the length is 4', we can see that we will need a force acting upon a lever equal to a weight of x which is placed 4' away from the fulcrum

this shows a equal input and output ratio

this also assumes our pendulums can only achieve an efficiency of 60%, which most should know is easily attainable for a pendulum

edit::::::::::

forgot to mention, all we need to do is limit the lever to 30* of rotation and this will provide the energy back, to create OU all we would need to do is extend the levers range of motion

do i have it wrong?