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Overunity Machines Forum



Electrical igniter for gas engines A keystone to understanding by Magluvin

Started by Magluvin, March 01, 2010, 01:30:50 AM

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0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

poynt99

Mags,

I may be wrong, but I suspect the author of the document GL posted, may have made at least one error.

The assertion is made in that document, that if the pre-charged capacitor's plate area is reduced by 1/2, the capacitor voltage will go up by a factor of 2.

I believe it will go up by a factor of about 1.41, not 2.

It may be quite a challenge to test this using a variable capacitor, as you are proposing. Most of these variable capacitors are values on the order of 100pF or so, and placing even a 10M Ohm voltage meter across the capacitor may load it enough, that you may not be able to obtain a stable enough measurement to see what the voltage actually increases to. Simple enough to test though, just charge the variable cap, remove the source, then place the meter on it. Does the voltage hold or begin discharging? If it discharges, how rapidly?

One alternative test that you may consider trying as a means to prove the theory, is to first, perfect your cap to cap energy transfer, using the same value capacitors. Get as close to 100% energy transfer as possible. You will be shooting for Vinitial x .707 on each capacitor. Try a MOT primary for your inductor.

Next, replace the empty capacitor to be charged with one at half the capacitance value. Now, run the energy transfer test again using the original source cap at the same initial voltage as before. Does the voltage on C2 charge to Vinitial x 1.000 (.707 x 1.414), or Vinitial x 1.414 (.707 x 2)?

This is not the same test as the variable capacitor test, but it may valid nonetheless.

.99
question everything, double check the facts, THEN decide your path...

Simple Cheap Low Power Oscillators V2.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=248
Towards Realizing the TPU V1.4: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=217
Capacitor Energy Transfer Experiments V1.0: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=209

forest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iONzbOfmzc

for me it looks similar to our problem with two capacitors and lost energy
I believe that energy really is radiated in radio waves which we know as a heat or other phenomena, but the real cause is oscillation between two caps and inductance of wires producing every 1/2 period of oscillation opposite dipole like bemf from video above. Ring -down process. Evidently adding other inductance we are changing frequency of oscillator and limiting radiation. Tesla said below 30khz makes almost no EM radiation.

poynt99

Quote from: forest on April 09, 2011, 07:20:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iONzbOfmzc

for me it looks similar to our problem with two capacitors and lost energy
I believe that energy really is radiated in radio waves which we know as a heat or other phenomena, but the real cause is oscillation between two caps and inductance of wires producing every 1/2 period of oscillation opposite dipole like bemf from video above. Ring -down process. Evidently adding other inductance we are changing frequency of oscillator and limiting radiation. Tesla said below 30khz makes almost no EM radiation.

There is only a very small amount of EM radiation, right at the instant the source cap is connected. Remember also, that since we are using a diode, there is no oscillation.

Any loss in this process is a dissipation of energy in the form of heat, and only in the resistive elements of the circuit.

.99
question everything, double check the facts, THEN decide your path...

Simple Cheap Low Power Oscillators V2.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=248
Towards Realizing the TPU V1.4: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=217
Capacitor Energy Transfer Experiments V1.0: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=209

poynt99

wrt the variable capacitor test, presuming that the voltage doubles while making the plate area 1/2, then the energy stored in the capacitor will indeed increase. However, the increase in energy will have been as a result of physically moving the charges in one of the plates.

I'm not sure that the author took that into account. He seems to indicate that it would require less energy to move the plate than what is gained in the capacitor. Proving this may be difficult using such small capacitors.

.99
question everything, double check the facts, THEN decide your path...

Simple Cheap Low Power Oscillators V2.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=248
Towards Realizing the TPU V1.4: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=217
Capacitor Energy Transfer Experiments V1.0: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=209

poynt99

In part 2 of the document, the author shows a variation of the capacitor energy transfer experiment, but the end result is the same. 50% of the energy from the source capacitor was transferred to the charge capacitor, and with zero loss.

This is again, great news for being able to transfer energy from one place to another without loss, but I fail to see if he is alluding to some notion of overunity. What conclusions do others here draw from the document?

.99
question everything, double check the facts, THEN decide your path...

Simple Cheap Low Power Oscillators V2.0
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=248
Towards Realizing the TPU V1.4: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=217
Capacitor Energy Transfer Experiments V1.0: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=209