The Problem With Free Energy Ideas

[Eighthman]

I think you've made some excellent points.  I'm inclined to think that energy creation (if we want to call it that) might only exist in transients - otherwise, we end up the same way, everything blows up into incandescence. You get a little bit for a fraction of a second and our world continues in safety.

Of course,  with some iteration, that would be OK for our purposes.  Aspden once said something that made me think - if you really believe that the laws of thermodynamics act perfectly, then there is no new energy.  All of the energy we see originated in the Big Bang and that's all there is.

Beyond collecting transient energy,  it is tempting to think we could create some sort of "macro quantum object" - rather like a big atom that exchanged energy with the vacuum.  Such a thing could act like a mini black hole or electrical tornado that could create wreckage.  Perhaps that adds credibility to the Mark TPU or Sweet devices and their reports of getting out of control.

[Charlie_V]

You know the problem with many in science is they ignore things that are staring right into their face.  There is definitely, without a doubt, a lot of disorder all over the universe, an undisputed fact. 

HOWEVER, I see at least an equal amount of order as well.  Without leaping onto fictional theories about spontaneous universe creations (which fall apart when time approaches zero) or complicated multi-universe hocus pocus, I would have to say that there DEFINITELY, without a doubt, is an effect in our universe that produces order.

If there was only disorder, we would not exist.  Since there would be nothing to produce the observed order and in effect "create" our existence - the universe would stay a nothingness void. But we can observe order all around us (all up in our face), so the only logical answer is that an ordering phenomenon must exist.  What it is, I don't know.  Could we harness it, maybe/maybe not.  Has science observed it, no. 

It could be something so complex we lack the ability to presently formulate it.  Maybe it is something that takes such a long time to observe that only in a 100 million earth years would you even start to notice it.  Or it could be something so simple that we just overlook it every day.

I think those posting that "energy creation would be like 0=1" are missing the big picture.  Stating that ONLY disorder makes 1=1 is very faulty math.  I think both order and disorder TOGETHER make 1=1.  Until you have both, our math will always be wrong - as will our complete picture of the universe we live.

Just my two cents,
Charlie

[Eighthman]

The maintenance of order in the universe moves us into theology, of a sort.  I greatly marvel that we see endless contentions about the ORIGIN of life but no one asks 'what maintains standards across the universe'? 

Another simple point that is vastly ignored: at some point or level in our universe, everything becomes arbitrary,  beyond reductionism, beyond causation.  Usually, if this topic is brought up at all, it gets brought up about the quantum level of reality. It pops up in the theory of decoherence, for example, or the idea that quanta act statistically.

[Charlie_V]

The maintenance of order in the universe moves us into theology, of a sort.  I greatly marvel that we see endless contentions about the ORIGIN of life but no one asks 'what maintains standards across the universe'?

I think the same phenomenon that generates order also maintains it - might be a cyclical thing, who knows.  I'm not really sure I would classify what I'm saying as theology since we definitely observe order.  Just no one has observed an ordering phenomenon in real time yet.  But if its there, a phenomenon has to make it.

[Eighthman]

The Second Big Problem with Free Energy is the whole Zero Point Energy thing.  So, we're surrounded by enormous energy, right?  But where is the 'sink' for that energy? How does it 'run downhill'?  Do we need another dimension for it to flow into?

It's like being at the bottom of the ocean and being surrounded by tons of pressure per square inch. Exactly what good is it if you don't have an area of lesser pressure to flow into?  And where's that?