http://plasmerg.com/kits.html (http://plasmerg.com/kits.html)
This explains the offer. This is for a WORKING project kit. I, for one, am going to order one and actively investigate getting a license as soon as I prove this incredible claim for myself. Though the kit has no "fuel" gases included, the mixture recipe is printed for the making. Making flat heads for a further build on a VW engine and modifying a VW distributor should be do-able. Re-building the engine with pistons and O-rings would seem within reach of many brothers and sisters here on the forum. I suggest if you do build a different engine using these principles and control board that you DO NOT start you first tests with a FULL LOAD of "Fuel" gases.
Take it sensibly and with caution, try a 1/4 load perhaps or something small enough to test the run loading of the mechanical parts. Ensure that you DO NOT create to much power for your engine conversion design. If the engine was a 75HP by FACTORY design it would be wise NOT to push that limit. HAVE A GREAT FUTURE ALL! (I will try to place the order form in our "DOWNLOADS" section in can the mysterious vanishing act happens yet again)
Hope,
You need to do some simple calculations on the output of the Plasmerg Popper
based in the estimates of what is being demonstrated at the Telsa Conference
from the videos. I estimate 1RPS = 60RPM, weight 30lbs., throw 4 inches with
1HP being equals to 550 foot lbs per seconds. The Plasma Popper gives an output
of only .75Hp 1% of the claimed 250Hp/2 = 125Hp per cylinder of the final engine.
*but is consistent with Papp's using nuclear material as his ignition source while the
Popper has none, therefore no gain is to be expected.*
This output power is 3000 times too small to see whether there is any obvious
thermodynamics violation during the operation of the Popper or not!
I claim that the "navy patent" engine which includes hydrogen gas in it's mix and makes it's
ignition source = LENR energy. (Info Hidden in plain sight, BTW.) Rather than Papp's nuclear
materials.
---
An interesting simple experiment would be to measure the cylinder temperature
rise with instrumentation while the Popper it is autocycling at 10Hz and reduce the
data. I expect one would see only unity energy gain, ie. no excess energy. If there was
excess heating it would indicate LENR in helium or something similar and would
be a positive unexpected anomaly. The heavier an element's atomic weight the
more energy it takes to undergo fusion. So only the lightest is expected to fuse
My belief is that LENR specifically requires hydrogen gas.
---
See, I don't think Plasmerg has their ducks in row no matter what they think of themselves.
Without a high quality demonstration that includes data taking and on the spot data
reduction they are simply a faith based organization engaged in character worship.
In other words, from my perspective; "In God we trust...*All* others pay cash"
and credibility comes from convincingly demonstrating an operating device
while understanding it's operational methods hierarchy, no other way.
:S:MarkSCoffman
I think what they are showing could actually a thermoacoustic engine of sorts. It's running on the thermal expansion-contraction of the gas, and is driven by the input of energy from the electronics.
A noble gas like helium is ideal for closed, gas-cycling thermal engines like Sterlings and TAs.
If anyone can get a VW engine to run using this system.... that would indeed be a miracle. And I've overhauled _many_ VW engines and aircraft engines of similar design, so I have some idea of what I'm talking about there.
To make a set of flat heads that would fit onto a standard 1600 cc VW engine is a trivial machine shop exercise and any competent machinist could make a set in a couple of hours. Especially if you don't need cooling fins or valvulation. However... it would be a waste of time, because you will never be able to make enough pressure in your cylinders to overcome the crankshaft bearing friction without actually burning some kind of fuel gas. Don't forget.... your noble gas "popper" VW will now be two-stroke and could also be developing some power during the "suck" phase as the gas shrinks from cooling... but also there will still be a lot of bearing and seal friction to overcome.
If you watch the complete demo you will see it lifts 400 psi 1.25 inches and that is at a very reduced volume of gases due to it only being a prototype model to show the principle. I live near Boeing and know many people there, the one engineer I do know is very optimistic on the power output results. A new engine type will have to go through a lot of certification before it will every be in commercial aircraft usage, so I don't expect to see this noble transition engine any time soon.
Mark do you have a working device you can open source? We respect your helping with so many projects and all wish we had something concrete to build.
The hydrogen gas is a solid key and I wish more people would research hydrogen's importance in interaction with other atoms. If Helium is the main string then Hydrogen is that main string plucked! And that causes it to react with all the other elements, just as sound wave's do with its surroundings.
Anybody who is interested in this stuff should go the PESN web site and read the last three or four Inteligentry articles. Much more importantly, you need to read all of the comments. Mark E. and myself and others challenged John Rohner and exposed him for what he really is. He has barely any technical competence and unfortunately there is simply nothing here. And I really mean nothing.
@MH: I get so lost over there. It looks like John Rohner and his brother don't exactly get along.... I did find some mention of his fake PhD claim, and some old pages where he claims to be getting ready for commercial sales of working engines in 2010--haha.
What if we use hydrogen gas in a different way? By isolating it in a vacuum then sparking it with plasma it will contract something like 1855 times its volume.
Funny to think an engine build to take advantage of this principle "would really suck"! (LOL)
Isn't it odd that a pianola works by using suction !
Compression
TK:
Quote@MH: I get so lost over there. It looks like John Rohner and his brother don't exactly get along.... I did find some mention of his fake PhD claim, and some old pages where he claims to be getting ready for commercial sales of working engines in 2010--haha.
The poster Mark E. is brilliant. He really knows his stuff and his knowledge spans a lot of scientific disciplines with a lot of depth. I have been reading him on PESN for a couple of months now. Notice that our good buddy Mr. Wayne put him at the top of his listing and called him a liar. So he even gets a ringing endorsement from Mr. Wayne.
The two Rohners apparently have been doing battle for quite some time but that is just a minor side show. John Rohner is selling is "popper plans" and I asked him how to test it. His response was a muted "duh?" It was comical. We asked him how do you know that the device is demonstrating over unity. His response was that if the piston moves that proves it is over unity.
After that Mark E. and myself and others talked about possible ways of measuring the input and output. A few days later when John Rohner found an opening he parroted our statements about making measurements on the device and claimed he does it all the time. More tragicomedy.
John Rohner comes off as a clueless country bumpkin, and when you read his borderline-psycho resume on the Inteligentry web site you can see that he has had an extensive working career as a firmware programmer tweaking BIOSes and stuff like that. Just because you can write assembler code does not mean you know much else, as is readily apparent when looking at the case of John Rohner. His brother Bob Rohner's presence on PESN is less but it would appear that he is cut from the same cloth.
It's a really big sheww.
MileHigh
@MileHigh
Can you give a link to that comments thread? There is so much old information mixed in with the new on PESN and PESWiki that I can't find the one you are talking about.
Thanks..
--TK
Quote from: Hope on August 11, 2012, 01:02:43 AM
What if we use hydrogen gas in a different way? By isolating it in a vacuum then sparking it with plasma it will contract something like 1855 times its volume.
Funny to think an engine build to take advantage of this principle "would really suck"! (LOL)
Certainly implosion engines can be made to work. However....
QuoteBy isolating it in a vacuum then sparking it with plasma it will contract something like 1855 times its volume.
Whaat? If you pump down a chamber to a good vacuum, then introduce some pure Hydrogen in there, and spark it..... nothing will happen.
If you put in a stoichiometrically correct portion of Hydrogen and Oxygen in there and spark it... it will indeed implode, producing water as "ash". The exact reduction in volume depends on the starting pressure. The number you cite is suspiciously close to the reduction in volume when Steam at atmospheric pressure condenses to water. Do you perhaps have your paradigms muddled?
Just provide some support for your assertions, with checkable outside references or a demonstration of your own.... please.
TK:
http://pesn.com/2012/07/16/9602136_Inteligentry_says_We_have_everything_we_need_to_get_into_manufacturing/
http://pesn.com/2012/07/26/9602145_Inteligentry_Surprise_in_store_at_TeslaTech_conference/
http://pesn.com/2012/08/03/9602151_Bob-Rohner-Group_presentation_at_TeslaTech/
http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602157_Inteligentry_to_debut_at_Power-Gen/
MileHigh
@MH: thanks.
:)
But comments? I see the article pages but I can't find comments.
TK:
I have to assume that you scrolled to the bottom of the pages and saw no comments. Perhaps the comments are Java-based and you disable Java by default? Not sure, I am not a browser nerd.
Perhaps try a different browser? I am assuming you surf on a Linux box? Perhaps try a Windows box?
MileHigh
Quote from: MileHigh on August 11, 2012, 07:41:49 PM
TK:
I have to assume that you scrolled to the bottom of the pages and saw no comments. Perhaps the comments are Java-based and you disable Java by default? Not sure, I am not a browser nerd.
Perhaps try a different browser? I am assuming you surf on a Linux box? Perhaps try a Windows box?
MileHigh
Must be that, yes. Usually I am notified by the security if they omit something, but apparently not on PESN.
I'll strip to my civvies, switch to Chromium, and try again. Thanks.....
(Try a Windows box? Oh no... it's time to change the garlic and polish off the crosses... and reload some silver bullets.....)
ETA: Yep, that did it. I see everything in Chromium... including all the ads. Thanks, there goes my evening... I'll be reading for a while.
Wow. I had no idea. I thought we had something unique over there, in the TB thread. But no...
There are two, a matched set .... LMM and Popper John.
TK:
There are two horror shows at play here.
The first horror show is that a man with almost no technical competence can pitch this nonsensical idiocy and get away with it for years and years and apparently make a living from it.
The second horror show is that I bet you that there are some believers that followed all the comments on the various PESN stories. They saw John Rohner reveal how ignorant and unqualified he is as several people including myself picked apart his proposition and exposed him for the fraud that he is. Yet these believers still believe, and completely ignore that the main pitchman for the proposition is little more than a backwoods carney. They are still waiting for the demo that will never happen.
MileHigh
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 11, 2012, 03:31:25 PM
Certainly implosion engines can be made to work. However....
Whaat? If you pump down a chamber to a good vacuum, then introduce some pure Hydrogen in there, and spark it..... nothing will happen.
If you put in a stoichiometrically correct portion of Hydrogen and Oxygen in there and spark it... it will indeed implode, producing water as "ash". The exact reduction in volume depends on the starting pressure. The number you cite is suspiciously close to the reduction in volume when Steam at atmospheric pressure condenses to water. Do you perhaps have your paradigms muddled?
Just provide some support for your assertions, with checkable outside references or a demonstration of your own.... please.
You must use an electronic plasma ignition, a regular spark will do nothing. The implosion is dramatic. One liter of imploded hydrogen is reported to make 1,800+liters of vacuum. I will have to research the link again. I read this over a year ago, perhaps I can find it again. I thought this was common knowledge or I would have copied it then.
One liter of hydrogen produces 1800+ liters of vacuum?
I am sorry, but that sentence is just about the funniest thing I've heard today. Maybe you should go and check your references. It certainly isn't common knowledge to me, but I have an open mind. I just don't tilt my head so far over my brains run out my earholes....
Could you describe a step by step procedure to do this? Like :
1) find a container... how big?
2) put vacuum in it... or not?
3) put one liter of Hydrogen in it... .how, at what pressure, etc.
4) spark it with an electronic plasma spark-- which is different from an ordinary spark just how?
5) measure the 1800 liters of vacuum resulting... how?
6) where is the imploded hydrogen?
What, by the way, is the difference between 1800 liters of vacuum..... and one liter of vacuum? (1799 liters of.... nothing?)
Look. Here is an engine filled with and running on pure Helium. It uses NO ignition at all, and it produces power on both the upstroke (pressure) and the downstroke (suction). Or rather side-strokes in and out. Is this any less remarkable than Popper John's Popper?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYovJzmCLdw
I love your glowing plasma mug. It's a gas.
Quote from: MileHigh on August 13, 2012, 01:13:14 AM
I love your glowing plasma mug. It's a gas.
Would you believe.... I can put 1800 liters of vacuum in there... and still have room for more?
By my estimates and calculations there is only 0.75Hp horsepower
is being generated by displays of the Plasmerg Popper. This power
is insufficient to deduce visible obvious implications about what
would occur in an engine running at small integer fractions of a
Noble Gas Engines spec'd power, without the use of instrumentation.
A product needs to be competitive with the internal combustion engine
in both output power per unit density in terms of weight and volume
or it won't justify it's material costs. So it is insufficient to say that
device is promising because it has some unusual characteristics even
if those characteristics are surprising (like self running) if it can't be
competitive with internal combustion engines on primary issues. It
seems to me as if Inteligentry is trying to get us to believe something
that the Plasma Popper can do does serve as a model to the final
engine. Some of these things include: "show thermodynamics law
violations", "shows that the output energy is coming totally out of fuel
gas mix", and "that is not getting it's energy solely from the environment".
I wish Inteligentry all the best in their upcoming demonstration.
But until that happens we need to know we have been shown precious
little proof of engine operation so far and we need to keep our options
open because of that. There is very little that I could see to justify
additional delays in such a demonstration.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Elastomer O-rings for piston rings, in an engine filled with a noble gas mixture, expanding and contracting with sufficient force to turn the assembled engine?
Come on, give me a break. How long do you expect it to run EVEN IF IT WOULD RUN... ten minutes?
Go down to your local party supply store and buy an elastomer (not Mylar) balloon full of helium. This helium in the balloon will be at very slightly over atmospheric pressure... just enough to keep the balloon stretched to shape.
Put it up in the corner of your living room or laboratory.
Check it tomorrow with a 12 inch micrometer caliper, Mitsutoyo brand for accuracy. (just kidding... the Mark 1 eyeball is much cheaper and for our purposes here, sufficiently accurate enough by far.)
Check it again the next day.
And the next.
Report your results here.
YOU CANNOT KEEP Helium, especially, confined behind elastomer seals at any positive pressure. Especially if those seals are sliding against other surfaces, lubricated or not. Other noble gases ditto, in proportion to their atomic weights.
The reason my little helium engine above slows and eventually stops is because the helium diffuses out (its seals are liquid: oilfilms) and is replaced by ordinary old air, which doesn't work nearly as well.... in heat engines.... as helium.
(ETA: I don't mean _you_ , Mark, obviously. I mean YOU, who believe in Popper John.)
Weird on my ride home I was thinking about how a flurescent light increases frequency of a wave and here is somebody talking about noble gases which again appear to increase frequency of a wave. I believe physics people call this inverse Thomson scattering or Crompton inverse scattering? Then there is Mags post about Hutchinson. Could we take an electrostatic field and shine some light through it and alter the wavelength of the light emitted? I think Hutchinsons cells are 300 nanometer devices. If Tesla said what I think he said a quarter wavelength dipole antennae is good for receiving due to electric field charging of the ends of the antennae. Most charge seperation per wave. Then you have Leedskalin's coral whose skeleton creates 300nm cavities between succesive layers. Been to the castle and it's 15 degrees cooler soon as you walk through the door because the coral stones are heatsinking the place. You can walk up to coral which is in direct sunlight and is darker than limesone. You burn your hand on the limestone but the coral cool. This 300nm cavity is interesting because it is a 1/4 wavelength of the nearinfrared bands. Sorry for this meaningless post just mind murmurring about coincidences.
T
Michael McKubre thinks its real.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dS1MsymF8hc#!
The only replication attempt I know of (using the kit of course):
http://open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=659
More videos: http://www.rohnermachine.com/
PS: OP should correct the spelling in the thread title to make it appear in searches. I think this news is important.
Quote from: TinselKoala on August 13, 2012, 06:16:11 PM
Elastomer O-rings for piston rings, in an engine filled with a noble gas mixture, expanding and contracting with sufficient force to turn the assembled engine?
Come on, give me a break. How long do you expect it to run EVEN IF IT WOULD RUN... ten minutes?
Go down to your local party supply store and buy an elastomer (not Mylar) balloon full of helium. This helium in the balloon will be at very slightly over atmospheric pressure... just enough to keep the balloon stretched to shape.
Put it up in the corner of your living room or laboratory.
Check it tomorrow with a 12 inch micrometer caliper, Mitsutoyo brand for accuracy. (just kidding... the Mark 1 eyeball is much cheaper and for our purposes here, sufficiently accurate enough by far.)
Check it again the next day.
And the next.
Report your results here.
YOU CANNOT KEEP Helium, especially, confined behind elastomer seals at any positive pressure. Especially if those seals are sliding against other surfaces, lubricated or not. Other noble gases ditto, in proportion to their atomic weights.
The reason my little helium engine above slows and eventually stops is because the helium diffuses out (its seals are liquid: oilfilms) and is replaced by ordinary old air, which doesn't work nearly as well.... in heat engines.... as helium.
(ETA: I don't mean _you_ , Mark, obviously. I mean YOU, who believe in Popper John.)
The inventor Dr.Pavel Imris show us in one of his publications one kind of solution to minimize pressure by envelopping the heat engine in a second chamber .
That means the engine has not directly ambient contact -and the effect that the helium pressure will be less strong to the in/out valve .
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=24&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19990922&CC=EP&NR=0943789A2&KC=A2
spark:
This is the cooling effect which we can also feel with active carbon/ pulvered coffee metal box.
A great dark qm surface aerea per cm².
The greeks used adobe amphores which have had this effect like the Dewar flask.
Sincerely
CdL
p.s.:
an east german inventor Dr.Helmut Reichelt,developped in the eightees a carbon powder/copper band
thermovoltaic cell. Probably your idea integrated !? Pulsed to ambient resonance by an electron-gas-cycle.
THz-Frequencies.
Quote from: Hope on August 12, 2012, 10:23:42 PM
You must use an electronic plasma ignition, a regular spark will do nothing. The implosion is dramatic. One liter of imploded hydrogen is reported to make 1,800+liters of vacuum. I will have to research the link again. I read this over a year ago, perhaps I can find it again. I thought this was common knowledge or I would have copied it then.
Wait till Dec 10th 2012, this is the date they say they will show a working engine. What do you want to bet they find a reason not to show the engine running. Still we hope.
Mark, what are the most promising devices as you see it just now?
Have you debunked the ERR? That Swartz guy seems a bit different.