Dear readers, i am located in Europe, i have build one magnetic device that runs for 10 days, without electricity.
This project that i am working on is succesfull for the full 10 days, i am just a normal guy with a low paid job.
To work further with this project, i need help, because the time i want spent to make the project last longer, taking time and money.
Are there company,s in Europe that work on such projects, and welcome ideas that works and support to make the idea long last working?
I would be very happy for any information regarding my project, i did not test to add a generator or dynamo on it, it probely not work in this stage due to its small size.
How ever it keep on turning the full 10 days, what is magical to see.
Hope for any information, thank you all.
Hi umit,
What do you mean on magnetic gravity? Do you mean you have permanent magnets in your device and you also utilize gravity for helping the rotor with further motive force?
Well, perhaps in the design laboratories of big companies which manufacture electric motors or any other engine able to give rotary torque to a shaft, the design engineers who are bold enough to think in a 'heterodox' way to give some consideration to such designs you are talking about, perhaps there are such engineers out there... problem is such topic is not mentioned openly in the companies agendas. Private small companies may also tinker with such devices but their whereabouts or their agendas are not known either. And if you approach any such company, there are chances that you yourself will be placed outside from your own device after a certain time and they will carry on the ball, file a patent application or they just close it into a drawer for a later time...
Regarding your project, it would be the best if you yourself demonstrate it, it is not a problem you did not test it with a generator attached to it, it would be enough you show it running to people you trust. Perhaps Stefan Hartmann the owner and runner of this forum could visit you, he is in Berlin, Germany and he has already offered his personal visits for such cases in the past.
What is the mass of your rotor i.e. how many gramm or kilogramm does it weight approximately? Because if your rotor has been running for 10 days now, it has to defeat air drag (and friction drag if the shaft has ball bearings) and nevertheless energy is also needed to keep the mass of the rotor in rotation. How noisy is your setup while running? How big it is now? Do you think it is scaleable up to give higher output power like some hundred Watts or even some kiloWatts? I ask too many questions.... :D
rgds, Gyula
EDIT Please, do not change or modify your presently running device unless it stops running due to some failure in a component. The best would be to start building another device... By the way what is the approximate RPM now?
Hi thank you for the comment, the total weight is around 3 kilograms, and it is around 50 centimeters in diameter.
And yes, most of the engineers think it is heterodox, how ever i think someone with those thinking are heterodox by them self, I think the engineers who thinks that have a lack of creativity or experience, and protect them self for losing them jobs, or they still not can accept that there are simple non-studiet person that actually archive more as they do, but that is my sight of the view of those sceptics.
The machine makes sounds, but not annoying, because lack of funds i used cheap materials, with proper materials it reduces the sound significantly.
This concept is based on pushing and pulling the magnets what creates his movement.
I did see information about the owner, that he visits people, at this stage i want to complete my project before showing it, some few persons know it,and i registered it in the Netherlands in the tax office, in The Netherlands if you not have a patent, you can register your information as proof that you made it, its a nice future from the country.
Anyway, i believe when he runs longer, or even when he stays at 10 days, i could make the construction stronger what creates energy.
If not, it will be a nice artwork to sell for cristies or sothebys :)
But in this stage i believe it has potential, and i am not raising funds at all, just need a workshop the materials, non discloser contract, and a final contract if achivment is made as discussed. Nothing els.
Sorry for my horrible english :)
Hi,
I think if somebody is not able to think in a "heterodox" way in engineering topics than there can be no progress at all... :D I agree with you on what you wrote on the engineers situation at a company and that a simple person can achive more i.e. outperform many 'big hat' engineers.
Thanks for the further comments on your device. How much Euro do you estimate the magnets would cost and any other components? (not counting the machining hours, just the magnets and other crucial components). Just curious.
You mention gravity in the title of the thread and you wrote above the concept is based on pushing and pulling the magnets what creates rotor movement: I would like to know how much % motive torque comes from the magnets and how much % from gravity?
greetings, Gyula
Hmm, i am glad you think the same about the engineers, however i disagree with the thinking in a heterodox, people archive more with forwarding positif taughts then get stepped back due to heterodox taughts, but this discussion wil be entless, and i respect every person taughts,its like discussion about taste of food, everybody have is own taste :).
Gyula, i am experimenting with magnets around 8 years, and got interested in OU in 2003.
Prices of magnets and materials is cheap, the amount of money is so low that its not need to say how much, lesser then 500 euro for sure, if its not 200.
The amount of time what i put in it is differend Gyula, that is years before i reach so far as i am now.
For now i become so far in this stage, i want further the process in full time,not part time, that is the most expensive costs, i have bills to pay.
I never ever calculate your question in percentage.
I made everytime differend adjustments on the construction till finally it turned and keep on turning.
So with luck and much puzzeling.
But if i look at the construction and i need to give indication, i would say 60 to 70 percent torch and between 30 to 40 percent gravity
@umit:
I read in your post:
QuoteI did see information about the owner, that he visits people, at this stage i want to complete my project before showing it, some few persons know it,and i registered it in the Netherlands in the tax office, in The Netherlands if you not have a patent, you can register your information as proof that you made it, its a nice future from the country.
I conclude that you might not be the "inventor" or "owner" of this device or idea. Whatever is the case, you (in case it is your idea) or the "owner" (in case it is someone else) should get a patent first.
The best way is to go to a patent attorney who will do everything for you. To file a patent in the Netherlands will cost about 3000.-- to 4000.-- EUR (money for the patent attorney and fees).
http://www.octrooigemachtigde.com/dutch_belgium_patent_attorneys.htm (http://www.octrooigemachtigde.com/dutch_belgium_patent_attorneys.htm)
Within a year of filing the patent in the Netherlands one has to decide to file it internationally, which will cost up to 100.000.-- in case one wants to include the whole of Europe, the USA, Japan, China and India.
But after one has filed the patent in the Netherlands (or in any other country initially) one has one year to show the thing around and to get expert advice without loosing the idea. During this first year it will become clear whether to go on or not.
To be honest, I think it will not be anything useful, but you should try in a professional way.
The professional way is to file a patent in your home country (e.g. in the Netherlands) and then you show the device to as many people as possible so that you hear all the reasons why it will not work.
It might sound expensive to first spend 3000.-- to 4000.-- EUR initially to file a patent, but it gives you the mental and practical freedom to get expert opinion. And then you will save a lot of money and time, because you will have learned what your "thing" is really about.
Trying to hide the "thing" will keep you away from expert opinion and you will for ever cling to your misconceptions.
So, what is the good way:
1) Spend the 3000.-- to 4000.-- EUR on a patent attorney who files a patent in the Netherlands.
2) Once the patent is filed (within a few weeks after the patent attorney started his work), you start talking to people. And you have one whole year before you have to decide on further patent protection in other countries.
3) By talking to many people and by showing your "thing" around, you will understand what you really have.
Greetings, Conrad
Thank you for the information, i have that same information, how ever i thank you for that.
At the other hand, you sound negative, to invest money to lissen at the end from experts that why it will not work, maybe i am wrong.
Any negative comment does not work for me, or distract me from what i am doing.
Thank you again for your information,
Hi umit,
Only one (last) comment on thinking "heterodox": I used inverted commas " " all the time for the word heterodox in my above posts, and I meant thinking outside the box, not in a negative sense of that word at all.
Thanks for the answers, I understand the long years you have spent experimenting with magnets. And going full time with tinkering in this area involves indeed more and more money.
I hope you will find someone with the needed facilities to carry on improving your device. Good luck!
Greetings, Gyula
My sincer apolegize to you,for mis understanding Gyula.
I did not see it anyway as something negative, and thank you for the support.
Regards,
Umit
To any new readers of this topic, i dont asking for money in any cind, i am looking for information, as what companys are doing research and offer help with
space with proper materials and machines for people as me.
Thank you for the help.
Quote from: umit on August 05, 2013, 08:10:59 AM
At the other hand, you sound negative, to invest money to lissen at the end from experts that why it will not work, maybe i am wrong.
Any negative comment does not work for me, or distract me from what i am doing.
@umit:
You are claiming something extraordinary (namely, a working permanent magnet motor). Therefore you have to be prepared for disbelieve and "negative comments". It is simply statistics. There are thousands of unsuccessful permanent magnet motors since a thousand years and you want to be the first one which has success. Please be prepared that people doubt that.
The only way to overcome this "negativity" is to proof your claim in a professional way.
The most important character trait of a professional is to accept criticism. Only by professionally answering criticism with tangible proof and hard facts you can progress.
Wishful thinking and esoterics will not help. You have to confront the public with useful information and reproduceable experiments. Nobody will believe hints, promises or vague utterances.
Saying "I have built this device since many years in secrecy and now it works" is the worst way of starting a conversation about a device which should do something extraordinary.
Try instead: "Look, here is the device, clearly described, professional performance measurements have been done, you can have a model and measure it yourself". And you can proceed in this way once you have filed a patent. And of course you must have a working device.
You have to come out of your secrecy. You have to give up avoiding criticism. You have to confront reality. Extraordinary claims cause extraordinary disbelieve.
There are no firms which will help you because they can not believe extraordinary claims. Every business man who wants to stay in business needs to be careful not to fall victim to unbelievable ideas.
Just think what you would do if I came to you with a strange idea and ask you for a lot of money? You will send me away, right? And you will send me away especially in case you have money, because you do not want to loose any.
You say that you do not ask for money. You ask for more than money, you ask for support and believe in an idea which has been proven a thousand times wrong. To overcome this you have to come up with something really good in a straight forward way. Every tiny mistake and every unclear word will be reason enough to send you away and to stop conversing with you. The world is full with people making unreasonable claims, how can anybody know that you are not the same? Ask yourself these questions and you will know what lies ahead of you.
Greetings, Conrad
Sorry if i offend you.
I not making any claims, i not promise anything or try to let someone believe something.
I sincerly ask only, if someone know specific companys in Europe that works on this cind of projects.
Also i dont want to discuss if something can or not can.
I understand that many people, that are at age now,worked many time on something that didnt worked,
stressed and having unbelieve due to failure, and having already declared by them self, if i couldnt make it, then nobody can make it.
This is false, with no offens, i respect every persons taughts and mind.
If i said here, people i have something what you dont have, or im the best,,then alright, i accept your statement.
In my situation forget what i said in the opening topic, I only want information what company,s work on such projects.
Thank you again for your reply, and please next time, keep your opinion positif also when it is negatif.
We are adults, there is no need to offend or disrespect someone.
Regards,
Umit
Hi Umit,
Would you tell about an approximate RPM (revolution per minute) for your rotor? Maybe some hundred or maybe under 100?
Also, if you try to stop the rotor by gripping its shaft with your hand (wearing gloves), then can it be stopped easily?
IF you do not wish to answer such questions I understand.
rgds, Gyula
Hi,no not one problem at all, it is below the 100rpm, it can be stopped without gloves, so it is easy to stop,it can not drive a small motor what produce electricity, but there might be something done with a copper tunnel,
Hi umit,
I wonder if you have already thought of turning to Steorn? Maybe they are not the best to mention regarding your aims (getting help with space with proper materials and machines etc) but they might be worth putting some questions to?
Here is a link what they had to offer a few years ago when they were active with their live demos etc: http://www.steorn.com/steornlab/
Please read all the events in connection with Steorn if you did not follow their activities in the past 6-7 years, to get the full picture. for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steorn etc, also on youtube just look for Steorn.
My question would be for you: does your setup still operate continuosly since you made your posts of last week? or you had to stop it due to some reason?
Greetings, and good luck!
Gyula
Hi Gyula
Thank you for the reply.
I don,t work with such company,s Gyula.
Started in 2006 with announcing the concept, and between start and several years raised funds over 3 million euro,s.
7 years later still not in production, sure that it is patented, why need to pay fees to watch the construction of the generator?
I know everything, steorn yildiz the canadian the australians the german that is in prison etcetera.
I dont want to involve in such things.
And your question related to my project, Afcourse it runs :) when it stops i give it a hand and watch it again for the full 9 to 10 days with big smile.
Its my life work, i dont give dust the chance to dirty my project :)))
Have a nice weekend Gyula
Regards,
Umit
Hi Umit,
Yes it is better not to have any connection with companies like Steorn or those people you listed, I agree.
If you do not mind, I would show you a link to a patent (from 1995 by Pavel Imris) which also works with permanent magnets and gravity. I attached below Figure 5 from it to see how the setup looks like. Patent language is in German and the European Patent office has a free online machine translation service by clicking on first the Description icon in the left hand side Menu and then you can see patenttranslate in red icon above the full German text. By clicking on red icon, you will have the machine translation in English in a new window. Here is the link to the Bibliographic data and to see the full patent with all the Figures you can click on the Original document on the left hand side Menu too. This is the link:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19950201&CC=EP&NR=0637120A1&KC=A1 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19950201&CC=EP&NR=0637120A1&KC=A1)
I am sure you will understand the principle for this setup and I would like to read your opinion whether the principle is correct at all or it leads to a sure failure?
Very briefly for those not getting the principle: the rotor wheel #22 is supposed to rotate clockwise because magnet #31 on it (shown at the 3 o'clock position) is repelled out radially by magnet #31' hence its rotary torque effect onto the shaft is higher than that of magnet #32 (shown at the 9 o'clock position) which (due to the spring on its left side) is shifted radially closer towards the shaft.
The repel force between the left hand side magnets #32 and #32' is weakened strongly by the ferromagnetic side walls #28 (which cover one half of the rotor wheel) so the spring can push magnet #32 closer to the shaft, making an unbalance for the wheel.
Of course this unbalance is also weakened by the pull forces of these magnets towards the ferromagnetic sidewalls but it may be compensated for by using heavier (in weight) magnets.
There seems to be two sticky points at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock positions but one is compensated by the other: when magnets at the 12 o'clock position are to exit (clockwise) from the gap between the two parallel ferromagnetic plates, they are tended to be kept there by the natural attraction to the ferromagnetic sidewalls and retard or break the rotation of the wheel, however, the magnets at the 6 o'clock position are just to enter into the gap between the ferromagnetic plates so they are naturally attracted clockwise, reducing the break force at the 12 o'clock position.
The spring at the 3 o'clock position is pushed by the repel force between magnets #31 and #31' when these magnets are outside of the ferromagnetic plates and this spring will release this repel force the moment the magnets enter into the gap between the plates, pushing the outside magnet closer to the rotor shaft, providing unbalance for the rotor.
I hope my description is understandable. Of course this is not really a high RPM setup, though using more magnet arms than 4 (as is shown) may increase speed and torque.
Regards, Gyula
Hi Gyula
It looks interesting, for sure not just only 1 person tried to replicate this,
maybe you are one of them.
If it worked it whas already in production, no?
Much things comes from long research, and many inventions by luck.
So what is it what you realy want to know or tell gyula?
Regards,
Umit
@umit:
You will be offended, but you are a model case in the OU world.
Situation 1): An inventor invents something and files a patent. This allows to show the invention to many people because the invention is protected by the patent. By showing the invention to many people the inventor learns about the shortcomings and advantages of his invention and can make informed decision.
Situation 2): An inventor invents something and tries to keep it a secret. This makes it impossible to show the invention to many people. The inventor can never find out about the shortcomings and advantages of his invention and gets lost in a dream world.
Inventors of "strange machines" tend to stay in "Situation 2)". This helps them to keep up an illusion. For many it is more desirable to keep on dreaming than to face reality. There might be some benefit in the "strange machine", but also this benefit will never be proven, because of the secrecy which prohibits independent tests and measurements.
Our world is complicated, therefore "Situation 1)" is also no guarantee for success. To file and to legally defend a patent is very expensive, and most people will not be able to afford that. In many cases the world will just ignore the invention, and all the money spent on the patent will be for nothing. This happens with the majority of patents. Patents for "strange machines" are almost always ignored.
So, "Situation 1)" and "Situation 2)" both pose grave problems. What is the right way to proceed after having invented a "strange machine"? Well, there is no right and simple way.
My personal opinion (an there is no guarantee that I am right) is "total openness". Show the "strange machine" to everybody and help many people to replicate and measure the "strange machine". What will happen? So far, every "strange machine" did not work as intended after careful measurements by independent parties. Only by prohibiting careful measurements and by holding a "secret" legends and rumours are kept up for many years, in some cases even for centuries (e.g. Bessler wheel or Tom Bearden).
In my opinion "total openness" is mainly a way for the inventor to protect himself from illusions and false conceptions. Of course I am talking about an honest inventor. A person interested in crime, will do everything to promote an illusion or to swindle. But the fraudsters are not interesting, one just has to avoid them, problem solved.
Most often the inventor of a "strange machine" worries about that his "idea" will be stolen and used by others for personal gain. Well, that happens to all good ideas (not only to "strange machines"). No matter what you invent (a conventional machine or a strange machine), it will be most difficult to make a profit from it. And the vast majority of inventors never make a profit from their invention. Per year about 250.000 patents are filed with the European Patent office, and how many of these "inventors" make a profit? If a profit is made, it is most likely a company and not a lone inventor. But the vast majority of patents filed by companies also make no profit. "Patent" is almost a synonym for "no profit", statistically speaking.
Therefore, statistics also speaks for "total openness", even for a conventional invention not only for strange inventions. A lone inventor has the best chance for success by sticking to "total openness". But there are no guarantees, like with everything in life.
Being a lone inventor is a very hard choice. Most good engineers work for a company and their inventions are turned into a profit by the company. The good engineer at least gets a good salary. You might not like this situation, but it is reality.
Greetings, Conrad
P.S.: This theme pops up at least three times every year. So nothing I said is new. To stick to "Situation2)" seems to be the nature of OU-inventors.
Yes Keep up the good work conrad, more looking into other people lifes rather then use the negative energy to make something new.
When people are so frustrated and negative about someone when actually no harm is done is because:
1.lonely life
2.many unsuccesful projects.
3.broken relation.
4.financial lose due to wrong investment.
5.jealousy
6.no experience, rather then read stories, and uses others stories as backup.
And many more.
O and please dont be offended,i can be wrong, above dont need to be you, i just got it from the internet.
I really would love to hear your comment if we lived in the passed, when the air plaine whas not invented yet, or televesion not invented yet.
For sure you would say,,you are a scam, only birds fly, and a television hahahahaha only a theatre with a box around it can be made and nothing els.
Enjoy your day, please, if you know some companies that work on such projects feel free to comment.
Otherwise , use the Always negative comment to your neighbours when they loudnen them music.
And i dont show openly my project, only in private parties.
Good luck.
Quote from: umit on August 09, 2013, 12:58:35 PM
I know everything, steorn yildiz the canadian the australians the german that is in prison etcetera.
I dont want to involve in such things.
Umit
You asked for a company and you gave yourself the right answer: there is no company! And if there is such a company, stay away from it.
Quote from: umit on August 10, 2013, 05:46:16 AMI really would love to hear your comment if we lived in the passed, when the air plaine whas not invented yet, or televesion not invented yet.
For sure you would say,,you are a scam, only birds fly, and a television hahahahaha only a theatre with a box around it can be made and nothing else.
Progress comes from good ideas which have been checked many times by many people. The important thing about "good ideas" or "inventions" is that they are measured, tested and checked many times by independent parties. If independent measurements and tests are confirming the ideas and if independent checking is also showing what is claimed, we have progress.
People publish their findings and if other people can repeat these findings independently, we have progress.
I hope you see that secrecy can not provide progress, because the independent checks can not be done.
One way to avoid "secrecy" is to file a patent. For many reasons you do not want to do that. And I agree, I would also not file a patent as a lone inventor.
Now I repeat what I want to say:You yourself found out that there is no company which can help you. (And I agree.)
You yourself do not want to spend money on a patent. (And I agree.)
My suggestion is therefore "total openness".
And this suggestion is logically and practically sound even if I am the worst and most negative person on earth. My worst personal habit is to try to tell the truth. Many people a very much offended by truth. And I am myself offended if someone tells the truth about my actions.
Greetings, Conrad
You know how i am thinking, or what i want? you are really annoying.
QuoteNow I repeat what I want to say:
You yourself found out that there is no company which can help you. (And I agree.)
You yourself do not want to spend money on a patent. (And I agree.)
My suggestion is therefore "total openness".
And this suggestion is logically and practically sound even if I am the worst and most negative person on earth. My worst personal habit is to try to tell the truth. Many people a very much offended by truth. And I am myself offended if someone tells the truth about my actions.
Greetings, Conrad
I didnt found out yet, that there is no such company exists, because i start searching recently, and keep on searching.
(so you agree with your own conclusion, thats fine)
My self that i not want spent money to patent? who told you that? where you get this information from, are you know what you talking about Conrad???
If i hade money i patented it, never ever said that i not want use my own money for that.
(so you agree again with your own self build conclusion)
How i see it Conrad, and others will see it now to, your conclusion is false, you know you are just annoying others with self made conclusion about others.
How can people take you now serious after this mistake?
That says something about yourself Conrad, the posts before i will also not take serious anymore due to your false statement.
Good luck
Regards,
Umit
My argument is: file a patent or be totally open.
Now you tell us that you want a patent. Fine, do that!
You identified problematic companies. Now you tell us, that you hope to find a good company in a problematic business segment. Fine, do that!
I am sorry that I can not help you to file a patent and that I can not help you to find a good company in a business segment that never produced a good company.
My contributions in this thread about "patents" and "total openness" make sense in a more general way. I am sorry that you see everything linked to you personally.
And you are right, I was rude. But I easily get upset if someone says "I have something extraordinary but I can not tell you what it is and how it works". I am convinced that this is a silly way to talk. You might not have said that directly, but you for sure insinuated it.
Greetings, Conrad
Dear Conrad
Again you make your own statement about me what is wrong.
Please focus on the treath.
I am searching for one company that HELP with providing materials and place to extend the duration of my project,
Second we spoke only about steorn, and the people i wrote aboute is just to let know that i am familiar with the OU world.
Third, i never asked help from you to fill a patent, so no apolagize, also i did not ask anybody for this in my treath, just sincerely asked if someone knows such company,s.
4, i not say i want patent it in first place,
Again you turn up the things what actually spoken about.
Why should i openly showing things, or announcing things, are you mad?
Thank you again, for your honoust but wrong statement.
Please. if you have nothing to do, bother someone els with your false and self made statements.
And stay next timeon track,instead of taking your time to write a whole story,
take your time to read First the story.
Kind regards,
Umit
Hi Umit,
Well I would like to know your opinion on the setup shown in that patent whether its working principle makes it possible to operate on its own as described. Of course I fully aware of how hard to answer this question without building it but I thought you have already a setup working on permanent magnets and gravity just like this setup so chances are you have a much better insight and judgement by just taking a glimpse on it. I also know that there must be a number of ways to utilize magnetism and gravity, not just like this setup or your own setup.
Unfortunately I am not aware of anybody who already built this and what they found, and I have not done so either. My opinion is that this principle has a chance to work on its own: when the magnets are on the right hand side of the wheel (i.e. away from the parallel ferromagnetic plates) the repel force can defeat the spring and shifts the outer magnet radially away from the shaft, and when the magnets are inside the paralell plates, the spring (due to the much less repel force) is able to release its pushing force acquired in the outside position and the outer magnet is shifted closer to the shaft, thus unbalancing the wheel. Maybe you can tell something just by a glimpse what I am not yet aware of which may sweep all my belief away. At least, this setup is the one which I consider as having a chance for operating on its own at all, out of the many hundreds or thousands of setups which are a nonsense in this respect, be it in a patent or shown on youtube, whatever.
So this is why I asked your opinion.
rgds, Gyula
Hi Gyula
My project is not the one that u showned.
There are many sketches and theoreical build constructions what seems to work, but actually when building one, it fails.
My project is build by steps and achived it with much luck.
To answer your question, i need to build it from the sketch, to be honoust i not want to do that.
In Overunity.com are many interested people, that can helpyou out with answers.
Why not making one topic of it, and see what answers comes out from it!
Kind regards,
Umit
Quote from: umit on August 10, 2013, 09:01:13 AM
Why should I openly showing things, or announcing things, are you mad?
@Umit: I am using your threat to discuss a very interesting phenomena in the OU world. In a way it is about you because you are strongly exhibiting this phenomena. But I see this phenomena almost in all threads where a so called "OU invention" is alleged. So please, stay cool. I know, it is not polite to do this to your thread and to you. But this phenomena is so very wide spread that it should be discussed. And yes, I have nothing better to do at the moment, sorry. And I apologise if I again say something about you (implicitly) which you did not say (explicitly).
The phenomena is:
Why should i openly show things, or announce things, are you mad?
This sentiment is of course the motivation behind all patents. It is the general feeling of many people in our capitalistic world, that every idea worth something should be used to make money and therefore has to be protected by a patent or by keeping it secret.
I accept that and do not want to condemn capitalism here. But let's analyse this sentiment in an OU context.
My opinion is:
Yes, please be so mad and openly disclose your OU invention.The reasons (according to my may be mad opinion):
1) If you really have invented an OU machine the implications will be staggering (it will be a world changer). Most rules we have now will be obsolete. Your personal fate will be totally unimportant compared to the changes which would overcome us. Nothing will be as it used to be. Politically we will have a total new arrangement of powers. So, whatever plans you have, they will be obsolete. Just try to survive by sharing your OU idea with people of good will. (Attention: I am not of good will, so please do not share your OU idea with me. I am a vile and super greedy capitalist eager to make money even from children and old grand mothers. And I do not expect a world changer, so stay calm, nothing will happen.)
2) If you made a conceptional or logical error you will know very soon if you openly share your invention. This is the most likely case and you will spare yourself a lot of money and grief by discussing your idea openly.
3) If your idea or invention is just unconventional (not really OU, but shows something not known so far) it is also good to share it openly, because you could gain recognition and money by writing a book or making presentations. The big problem is credibility. And you can most easily gain credibility by discussing your idea openly with as many people as possible. There will be no products for a long time, because your idea or invention has to be developed into something useful and you will not be able to do that alone. Also a single company can not do that alone. Only over a long time, after many people have tried your idea or invention, there will be progress and belief in it. All great inventions took many decades to catch on.
4) A big missconception about patents is that one can protect "principles". A "principle" is a discovery: a new law in nature, a new connection between forces in nature or even a new force in nature. One can not protect a "discovery" with a patent, only "devices" based on a discovery can be protected. One can build a million different devices based on a new discovery and there will be a million patents based on a new discovery. And how many of these million patents will be your patents?
So, this is why I believe in sharing a great invention openly, specially if it is some "principle" not known so far. This opinion is not popular, it even causes outbursts of rage if I tell it to OU inventors (or other inventors). In science it is done like this. Scientists always publish their findings and they gain recognition if their findings are confirmed by others.
I am not talking about "conventional inventions" (inventions that stay within conventional science and knowledge). So, for "normal inventions" (containing no contradictions to conventional wisdom), please go and file a patent, please go to companies and try to make money to your hearts content.
But if your idea or invention contradicts conventional science (e.g. by claiming or insinuating OU or by claiming an effect not known so far) please share it with everybody for the above four reasons.
I believe that unconventional ideas can be best promoted (even with personal gain) by discussing them openly. And this shows that I have a very positive world outlook.
Greetings, Conrad
Quote from: umit on August 10, 2013, 09:01:13 AM
Dear Conrad
Again you make your own statement about me what is wrong.
Please focus on the treath.
I am searching for one company that HELP with providing materials and place to extend the duration of my project,
Second we spoke only about steorn, and the people i wrote aboute is just to let know that i am familiar with the OU world.
Third, i never asked help from you to fill a patent, so no apolagize, also i did not ask anybody for this in my treath, just sincerely asked if someone knows such company,s.
4, i not say i want patent it in first place,
Again you turn up the things what actually spoken about.
Why should i openly showing things, or announcing things, are you mad?
Thank you again, for your honoust but wrong statement.
Please. if you have nothing to do, bother someone els with your false and self made statements.
And stay next timeon track,instead of taking your time to write a whole story,
take your time to read First the story.
Kind regards,
Umit
Hello Umit,
I admire your stand to not just give away openly your design or go the patent route. I have done the same thing. (In the USA, they won't patent a device that is very efficient or OU.) I too am in the same position as yourself. I have several devices that have "great claims", and great potential, but do not want to openly give away the design to others without a financial interest to help out the project. I think the people that want to know about the device, need to have an interest in keeping it secure until it can be manufactured or carefully leased or licensed out.
I have a suggestion for you and your project. Do an internet search for
crowd funding. You can set up a page that investors can look at that gives them a chance to invest in your project. Read the fine print at these different sites because they are different, some being much better than others. These sites make money when you do. Some let you keep the money, even if you don't make your fund raising goal, while others don't. Again, read carefully the rules of the funding site.
I have done this on my own web site www.dynamaticmotors.com , by putting a donate button on the page for those interested in giving to help the project of the inventor. The disadvantage is that I may miss some investors that don't look at my web site. You can do a similar thing on a crowd-funding web site to find funding for your project to help you. I hope that this helps you and your project.
Also, instead of a patent, you might consider making your project a trade secret. In my country, I understand that a trade secret costs nothing, except for a lock and key for your plans and you can't reveal the critical knowledge of your device in public. In the US, you can still license your plans through contract and confidentiality agreements. You just have to carefully pick those you reveal your plans to that can be trusted and are willing to invest in your project.
If you decide to open up your plans, you the inventor will get nothing for all your efforts.
Best wishes,
Liberty
Dynamaticmotors.com
Hi Liberty
thank you for the information,
This little information do help me a lot, and i will look at it for sure.
I know, that many people, like the 1 in my treath, is very negative, and force with the nagativity to show openly my project.
If i ask him for his bank details, bank card and pin,he will for 100 percent refuse to give me, it is the same, asking me openly to announce my investment to lose everything with it.
You do good, you made your own website, and working on your project, keep up the good thing, i realy hope you having the breaktrough,and make it production worthly.
Kind regards,
Umit
Conrad,
I dont know what to do, cry or smile.
Dont blameme for your failures,and dont react it on me.
You are evry time repeating and repeating the same thing with no logic and only negative in the same way.
Please dont write anymore in my treath, it make it only more full,and creating almost no space for the ones that are positif.
Create your own topic with, Why i am negative about OU, and why do i not respect other people when the ask to move on.
This will be a very good topic.
Not only me but many more will give you some advices to change your personality.
Thank you and,
Kind regards,
Umit
Hi Umit,
Thanks for your answer. Of course I do not want you to build the patent setup.
This setup already was in a topic here in 2007: http://www.overunity.com/3692/gravito-magnetic-imris-pavel-patent-cz9401781/msg62303/#msg62303 but there was no practical tests. (Pavel Imris patented his setup in four equivalent patents: RU94026259 DE4325026 CZ9401781 and EP0637120.)
The thread (linked above) ended with considering possible eddy current losses in the ferromagnetic plates which can of course be true to cause losses but using transformer laminations for instance those losses can be minimized.
Anyway, I wish you good luck, hopefully you will have success with your device.
rgds, Gyula