Hello,
Its seems a stupid question!
Lets assuming, we want to design a coil? just a coil
the question:
how to apply the music rules in this simple exemple?
If D is the diameter of the coil
H the height
n number turn
so acccording to ''squaring the circle'' sacred geometry term
H= pi/2*D or ( H= phi*D)
this is my favorite pi value (pi=3.24=2*1.62)
so
H=1.62*D
how about the n turn number? there is no chance in nature?
One more question please
Any benefit from using numbers highly composites like D= 144 or 2880....25920...34560..?
I hope you had a nice Christmas with your family and all the best for the new year.
luc2010
Hi Luc,
I am not sure if people understand what you mean.
A standing wave is the result of Resonance, maybe the same as Harmony. The coil itself has no Resonance, it needs a counterpart, for instance a capacitor. Very common is the socalled resonant tank circuit.
Personally I think capacitors are wasteing energy during transfer, but an other possibillity may be a second coil that is only electricly coupled, not inductively.
There is a lot of information about resonant circuits that can be googled. Whether the use of sacred geometry has an impact, I don't know.
Peace
Quote from: luc2010 on December 28, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
Hello,
Its seems a stupid question!
Lets assuming, we want to design a coil? just a coil
the question:
how to apply the music rules in this simple exemple?
If D is the diameter of the coil
H the height
n number turn
so acccording to ''squaring the circle'' sacred geometry term
H= pi/2*D or ( H= phi*D)
this is my favorite pi value (pi=3.24=2*1.62)
Say what? Pi ~= 3.14159265359
Quote
so
H=1.62*D
how about the n turn number? there is no chance in nature?
One more question please
Any benefit from using numbers highly composites like D= 144 or 2880....25920...34560..?
Best Regards
luc2010
Quote from: dieter on December 28, 2014, 09:43:37 PM
Hi Luc,
I am not sure if people understand what you mean.
A standing wave is the result of Resonance, maybe the same as Harmony. The coil itself has no Resonance, it needs a counterpart, for instance a capacitor. Very common is the socalled resonant tank circuit.
Personally I think capacitors are wasteing energy during transfer, but an other possibillity may be a second coil that is only electricly coupled, not inductively.
There is a lot of information about resonant circuits that can be googled. Whether the use of sacred geometry has an impact, I don't know.
Peace
Hi dieter,
a standing wave is formed at particular frequencies and energy is recycled in the coil and interfering constructively with itself, reflected back in the coil and recycled and reused, rather than dissipated in the ambient as power loss.
may be i have it wrong? but
the waste is the current so the coils not the caps?
Best regards
luc2010
Quote from: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 10:03:55 PM
Say what? Pi ~= 3.14159265359
Hello MarkE,
but pi 3.24 is not the only pi value, pi is not a constant value. There is are different pi value for squaring the circle "geometry term" and a different pi value exist for outer space as well. For example I cold rolled a sheet of steel 1.2m wide 2.4m long by 3mm thick into a cylinder and it grew in length by over 50mm. Pi at 3.14 is good for drawing plans but not practical for real world engineering.
Best Regards
luc2010
Quote from: luc2010 on December 28, 2014, 10:49:56 PM
Hello MarkE,
but pi 3.24 is not the only pi value, pi is not a constant value. There is are different pi value for squaring the circle "geometry term" and a different pi value exist for outer space as well. For example I cold rolled a sheet of steel 1.2m wide 2.4m long by 3mm thick into a cylinder and it grew in length by over 50mm. Pi at 3.14 is good for drawing plans but not practical for real world engineering.
Best Regards
luc2010
Pi is the ratio of the length of a circle's circumference to its diameter. "Taxicab" geometry artificially defines a path that incrementally moves towards and away from the circumference of a circle resulting in a contrived artificially long "path" length for the circumference. Pi, and its approximation of 3.141592653590 is fundamental to all AC electrical engineering. Your assertion that it is "not practical for real world engineering" is flat wrong.
Quote from: MarkE on December 28, 2014, 11:21:53 PM
Pi is the ratio of the length of a circle's circumference to its diameter. "Taxicab" geometry artificially defines a path that incrementally moves towards and away from the circumference of a circle resulting in a contrived artificially long "path" length for the circumference. Pi, and its approximation of 3.141592653590 is fundamental to all AC electrical engineering. Your assertion that it is "not practical for real world engineering" is flat wrong.
If it were not "practical for real world engineering", then the computer he is typing on would not work.
Bill
Quote from: luc2010 on December 28, 2014, 10:49:56 PM
Hello MarkE,
but pi 3.24 is not the only pi value, pi is not a constant value. There is are different pi value for squaring the circle "geometry term" and a different pi value exist for outer space as well. For example I cold rolled a sheet of steel 1.2m wide 2.4m long by 3mm thick into a cylinder and it grew in length by over 50mm. Pi at 3.14 is good for drawing plans but not practical for real world engineering.
Best Regards
luc2010
Just how much metal-working experience have you had?
I have been guessing that it is not extensive. Tell me, have you ever learned the right way to bend a tube, such as a car brake line?
CANGAS 111
You just gives me another reason, Why we dont have publicly Higth ''efficient'' working machines!!
quote:
'' Not amount of attestation of innumerable and honest witnesses would ever convince anyone versed in mathematical and mechanical science, that a person had squared the circle or Discovered perpetual motion.''
Baden Powell, Essays and reviews, 1860
According to the mathematians:
Pi= 3,141 592 653 589 793 ....
Phi=1.618033...
my question is not how they came up with this?
in nature everything is proportional, its all about music if you prefer
so what is the ''perfect'' value used by nature?
the answer:
pi=a/b
phi=c/d
(a,b,c,d are natural number)
why this so important?
because, we need to make a music / standing waves
frequancy= wave speed/ wave lengeth
electromagnetic waves, sound waves.. its the same rule!
BUT in music, we have no ''perfect'' tuning and this is the topic, so my quetion is:
how to tune in the coil?
other exemple:
In the field of amplified speaker design, there is a long-known secret about how to keep unintended standing waves from forming. sealed box enclosures are always built with interior proportions ''aproximating'' the golden ratio! and its inverse, such as 0.62*1*1.62.
(just fibonacci 0.62 + 1 = 1.62)
These proportions are widely considered antiharmonic and optimal for eliminating standing waves inside a speaker box.
This works because standing waves cannot form when reflected at or near the proportion of the golden ratio or its inverse!!
Similarly, rooms and auditoriums built in this proportion will not echo and, along with non-reflective materials, avoid extraneous dissipation or cancellation of the original sound energy that can occur in interfering waves!!!
Best Regards and have a good new year
luc2010
Quote from: luc2010 on December 29, 2014, 02:36:49 PM
According to the mathematians:
Pi= 3,141 592 653 589 793 ....
Phi=1.618033...
my question is not how they came up with this?
You have obviously Googled the values, which means you have almost certainly seen in articles on those numbers how they have been derived since the days of the Greeks. So what part of the thousands and thousands of web pages that explain these two values is giving you trouble?
Quote
in nature everything is proportional, its all about music if you prefer
so what is the ''perfect'' value used by nature?
the answer:
pi=a/b
phi=c/d
(a,b,c,d are natural number)
why this so important?
because, we need to make a music / standing waves
frequancy= wave speed/ wave lengeth
electromagnetic waves, sound waves.. its the same rule!
BUT in music, we have no ''perfect'' tuning and this is the topic, so my quetion is:
how to tune in the coil?
other exemple:
In the field of amplified speaker design, there is a long-known secret about how to keep unintended standing waves from forming. sealed box enclosures are always built with interior proportions ''aproximating'' the golden ratio! and its inverse, such as 0.62*1*1.62.
(just fibonacci 0.62 + 1 = 1.62)
These proportions are widely considered antiharmonic and optimal for eliminating standing waves inside a speaker box.
This works because standing waves cannot form when reflected at or near the proportion of the golden ratio or its inverse!!
Similarly, rooms and auditoriums built in this proportion will not echo and, along with non-reflective materials, avoid extraneous dissipation or cancellation of the original sound energy that can occur in interfering waves!!!
Best Regards and have a good new year
luc2010
Except that you are wrong. Where there are surfaces with non-zero reflectivity inside a cavity standing waves form: period. The Phi ratio has many interesting qualities, but it does not eliminate reverberations. The only way to eliminate reverberations in a cavity is for the walls to absorb incident energy completely.
Hello,
They are just interested in the induction created by running a current or charge through a coil of any given length. What we (Tesla fellow not yet ;) ) do and what natures does is tune into natural frequencies and run off the energy that holds together the fabric of existence!!!!
Best regards
luc2010
Hi,
f= c/l
f=frequency
c= wave speed
l= wave lengeth
Any benifit from using this equation?
if l= coil lengeth
lets first we All agree on that?
Next step will be using all dimensions from a harmonics of that value!
ln=n*l
......
thare is no "perfect" tuning so lets try with this one:
just intonation scale proportions:
24,27,30,32,36,40,45,48
heigth =40/24 diameter
number turn?
now how to do that?
Best Regards
luc2010
Unbelievable. You don't get to choose your 'favorite' value for physical constants like pi !
If you want to start making up numbers then you can "prove" anything you want.
Quote
Hi,
f= c/l
f=frequency
c= wave speed
l= wave lengeth
Any benifit from using this equation?
if l= coil lengeth
lets first we All agree on that?
Next step will be using all dimensions from a harmonics of that value!
ln=n*l
......
thare is no "perfect" tuning so lets try with this one:
just intonation scale proportions:
24,27,30,32,36,40,45,48
heigth =40/24 diameter
number turn?
now how to do that?
Best Regards
luc2010
Unfortunately... the answer will require using the correct value for pi, as well as knowing such things as the diameter of the wire...
Once again there are many many calculators available on the internet that will tell you how many turns of a given diameter wire with a given insulation thickness you need to wind on a form of a given diameter, with a given inter-turn spacing, to arrive at a given physical length of wire and winding height and a given electrical length, resonant frequency when coupled with a given capacitance, etc. Unfortunately all these calculators use the same value for pi... and it's not your "favorite" one.
Quote from: TinselKoala on December 30, 2014, 11:30:10 AM
Unbelievable. You don't get to choose your 'favorite' value for physical constants like pi !
I think when we want to caculate pi without computers assistance and using heigh "algebra" numbering system and without circular argument? Just using some "primitive" tools and commun sense?
Yes, Its the "magic" of squring the circle!!
When Mathematicians and scientists agree that mathematics is le language of God, then why do we think that God would speak an irrational language with us like the present irrational mathematical pi accepted by the mathematicians and scientists, which is also the most famous mathematical constant and a symbole of our universe.
It should be rather a perfect rational mathematical with full representation of our universe and the language of God which should be a rational mathematical language!!!
Please, help me to find the answer of this question:
(how to apply this music rule)?
Are you trying to says its ''impossible" tasks to achives?
Best Regards
luc2010
Quote from: luc2010 on December 30, 2014, 01:33:06 PM
I think when we want to caculate pi without computers assistance and using heigh "algebra" numbering system and without circular argument? Just using some "primitive" tools and commun sense?
Yes, Its the "magic" of squring the circle!!
Archimedes calculated Pi by hand to less than 1% error.
Quote
When Mathematicians and scientists agree that mathematics is le language of God, then why do we think that God would speak an irrational language with us like the present irrational mathematical pi accepted by the mathematicians and scientists, which is also the most famous mathematical constant and a symbole of our universe.
Why are oranges orange while cucumbers aren't?
Quote
It should be rather a perfect rational mathematical with full representation of our universe and the language of God which should be a rational mathematical language!!!
Why, because you say so?
Quote
Please, help me to find the answer this question:
(how to apply this music rule)?
Are you trying to says its ''impossible" tasks to achives?
Best Regards
luc2010
If you have a rule then you should know where it applies.
Hi,
This may help
http://ray.tomes.biz/story.htm (http://ray.tomes.biz/story.htm)
https://artojh.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/the-hidden-code-of-bruce-cathie/ (https://artojh.wordpress.com/2013/01/14/the-hidden-code-of-bruce-cathie/)
I need help to understand very well how to apply this music rule to ANYTHING?
Best Regards
luc2010
According to my calculations there is a multiharmonic wavelength of 10815m, or 27720 Hertz. It is dividable by 1 to 12 and should contain a standing wave not limited to, yet including the atomic electron spin at c.
That said, I may have no idea what I'm talking about ;D
All this makes as much sense as the fabled:
"Indiana Pi Bill of 1897".
America's moment of shame.
HI,
Quote from: Paul-R on January 02, 2015, 11:31:02 AM
All this makes as much sense as the fabled:
"Indiana Pi Bill of 1897".
America's moment of shame.
Plaese, some more details?
Quote from: luc2010 on January 03, 2015, 03:28:43 AM
Hello,
Please, one more question?
In the page 44:
" Remembering that in any perfect magnet, the dielectric is 3.23 ( phi times 2 ) times bigger than the magnetic which is 1.
A ratio of 3.236 to 1."
why we must hide " the squaring circle " method here?
what needed is only :
pi = 2 * phi ( or pi /2 = phi , tesla claims of pi/2 more than speed of ligth )
but instead of using the decimal value, we need only fibonacci?
" why not using the very simple arithmetic calculations, not requiring PI, PHI or Log, this is how nature creates harmonies and natural intervals that exist everywhere not just on your piano?
Pythagoras (the natural whole number science) vs modern scientists "
as you can see pi = 2*phi
very close to pi=3.24 (my favorite)!!
Best Regards
If it is the famous π it's 3.1416... and the next I d'on't remember.
Hi,
Quote from: luc2010 on December 28, 2014, 10:49:56 PM
Hello MarkE,
but pi 3.24 is not the only pi value, pi is not a constant value. There is are different pi value for squaring the circle "geometry term" and a different pi value exist for outer space as well. For example I cold rolled a sheet of steel 1.2m wide 2.4m long by 3mm thick into a cylinder and it grew in length by over 50mm. Pi at 3.14 is good for drawing plans but not practical for real world engineering.
Best Regards
luc2010
I dont know the "correct" answer, but this is just an opinion:
In harmonic science according to our todays views
pi =3.1415...
phi =1.618033...
we work on this interval
[ pi/2 , phi] so
1.570779 < x < 1.618033
is not important how we start, but we need to close the loop? very important
"resonance" vs harmonie ( phi vs pi )!
we need a balance point here and to find it, we need to " square the circle ", and there are many values to do this ;)
for this particular value pi= 2 *phi
the interval is now zero! this is the most harmonies and " resonance"
just my 2 cents...
best regards
luc2010
3.1, 3.2, who gives a dam. Hey, I can google Pi too. How many digits do you need?
But Art is something you can't find on wikipedia. (Please don't be the fool who links to the "Art" page on wikipedia...)
Luc, basicly it is good to have two coils or wires, one of them a quarter of the length of the other. This way they can build resonance automaticly. Depending on what you want to receive, you may choose a certain wire length.
I found some other interesting wavelegths that may be more practical:
24.4684m
is 12'252'200 Hertz
This is dividable trough 1 to 17.
146.81m
2'042'040 hz
is dividable trough 1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55, a fibonacci sequence representing Phi (although there may be a better way to work with phi, see below)
17.869m
16'777'216 hz
is dividable trough the binary values up to bit 24
my favorite, so handy:
0.558407m
536'870'912 hz
dividable binary up to bit 29
These binary dividables have to best potential in my humble opinion.
As for phi, it may be interesting to use a multitude of wires, each with an individual length, starting with 1.618m, then 1.618^2, then 1.618^3 and so on. Each Wire may use a diode to connect to a central node.
Well, just a crazy idea
BR
Hello dieter,
Quote from: dieter on January 05, 2015, 10:43:00 AM
3.1, 3.2, who gives a dam. Hey, I can google Pi too. How many digits do you need?
But Art is something you can't find on wikipedia. (Please don't be the fool who links to the "Art" page on wikipedia...)
Luc, basicly it is good to have two coils or wires, one of them a quarter of the length of the other. This way they can build resonance automaticly. Depending on what you want to receive, you may choose a certain wire length.
I found some other interesting wavelegths that may be more practical:
....
pi its based on how you square the circle?....
basicly it is good to have two coils or wires, one of them a quarter of the length of the other. This way they can build resonance automaticly. Depending on what you want to receive, you may choose a certain wire length. ??? ??
you are just trying to make a "standing waves"
BUT why not we try to do this in one single coil??
as we know, one coil have:
diameter,
heigth,
number of turns (Total lengeth)
they all need to be on proportions!!!
....
music is just a waves, a sound waves, a standing sound waves
electromagnetism also just a waves,
so we are trying here to make a music? using the music rule or proportios with electricity... that the all idea ... ;)
Best regards
luc2010
Sound - Singing Rod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4oMAfqtFZ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4oMAfqtFZ4)
the basic idea
That's it! ;)