http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/NewcomerIndex.html
Quote from: Spirit on January 25, 2015, 04:25:33 PM
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/NewcomerIndex.html (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/NewcomerIndex.html)
The page is wrong in its very first paragraph and continues being wrong throughout.
The source of the energy in waterwheels, hydroelectric dam systems and so on is NOT GRAVITY. It is the sun, which is responsible for lifting the water in the first place. The flow is caused by gravity, but when the upper reservoir runs out, then what? To complete the cycle the water must be LIFTED UP to refill the reservoir. Do you think this happens by magic, or by gravity? No, it happens because of the sun evaporating water and driving weather which produces rainfall which then runs down to fill up the reservoir. The energy comes from the sun, not gravity. The same is true for wind power.
The device which occupies another great section of that front page will not operate like you think it will. That is, it is nothing more than an offcenter flywheel, that will not produce a _steady_ output any greater than the steady input from its drive motor. Like any flywheel it can store up energy in the form of angular momentum, and this energy can be released at higher _peak power_ than the drive motor may be able to produce... but not for long, and the flywheel will slow down when it does.
It's simple enough, why don't you just build one and demonstrate it running itself? I know why, and so do you.
The solar powered lamp or solar powered recharging lamp is nothing new and it is basically the same thing as the Garden Lights you can buy for a dollar at the Dollar store: A battery, a PV panel, some cheap circuitry and an LED or array. We have people on this forum who use such devices every day for lighting around their homes.
The James Hardy device is a well-known hoax. It does not run itself.
The Thane Heins claims are also false, due to improper measurements of ordinary phenomena. He has never been able to provide the necessary proof: A self-looped system. And neither has anyone else who has reproduced his work.
LTseung is a well known perpetrator and promoter of delusions. He claimed OU from simple Joule Thief circuits for a long long time, even sent out many examples of his claimed OU circuit to other researchers for testing... and his incorrect measurements were eventually tracked down to poorly calibrated Atten low-end digital oscilloscopes. Recently he has claimed that "money is no object" and that he could "Easily donate 100,000 dollars to WITTS" to purchase a 'working' QEG that would run itself. But he has not done so, because he cannot, because there is no such thing as a "working" QEG from WITTS or anywhere else.
The Charles Campbell system is also incapable of running itself or providing more energy out than in.
Bedini... and a claim of 800 percent OU !! Now I am starting to laugh out loud! NO Bedini system has EVER produced any more energy out than input! There are probably dozens of people on this very forum who have worked with Bedini systems and not a single one of them, INCLUDING BEDINI, has ever made a self-runner, which would be trivial to do if the devices even put out 130 percent OU !!
Next you have another LTseung device which is also a case of bad measurements and faulty interpretations, which cannot run itself in spite of the large OU claims.
Now we move on to "simple permanent magnet motors" which don't work, and even SMOTs !! No self looping, no self running, power comes from "mister Hand" in every case.
Next we have another real device that scavenges energy from stray RF in the environment. "Free energy" yes... because somebody else paid for the energy, radiated from radio stations and leaking from house wiring electromagnetic fields. Nothing new here at all and certainly not free in the usual sense of the word.
Then we come to LTseung's poorly measured "FLEET" Joule Thief. There are a couple of long running threads on this forum concerning that fiasco, which is not OU at all, it is an ordinary JT and if you bother to do your homework you will find out the source of the mismeasurements. Lawrence himself doesn't even promote that one any more.
Next comes some battery chargers for which more incorrect claims are made like 200 percent OU. These aren't even worthy of discussion any more, since they have been done to death and when properly measured the "ou" goes away. It's very shy you know, afraid of things like oscilloscopes and power analyzers, and only shows up when DMMs are used to measure no-load terminal voltages of the "charged" batteries.
Next come the inevitable electrolysis systems, which also incorporate lots of nonsense and false claims. HHO for example. Hydrogen gas produced by electrolysis is always diatomic, and so is oxygen gas. Many of these systems "microboil" water between the plates and thus produce high gas volume outputs... wet gas consisting of large amounts of water vapor. Not a single system of electrolyzer-ICE-generator has ever been shown to run itself, producing excess power.
Then there's the Joe Cell ! What a joke that one is! "The Joe Cell can channel this energy into the engine of a vehicle and run it without using any fuel at all." Right, and Santa Claus uses one to power his sled instead of reindeer !!
And finally.... the claims of Robert Hull. Stick a wire down your dipstick hole, connect it to some unpowered coils, and you'll get 25 percent greater gas mileage. Also a false claim, not reproducible under properly controlled testing.
Kelly's book is a great compendium of fails, hoaxes, improper measurements, false claims, with one or two things that actually work but not for the reasons claimed. Why don't you ask Kelly where he gets the electricity to run his home. Not from an ICE powered by a Joe Cell, that's for sure !
Quote from: TinselKoala on January 25, 2015, 08:03:22 PM
The page is wrong in its very first paragraph and continues being wrong throughout.
The source of the energy in waterwheels, hydroelectric dam systems and so on is NOT GRAVITY. It is the sun, which is responsible for lifting the water in the first place. The flow is caused by gravity, but when the upper reservoir runs out, then what? To complete the cycle the water must be LIFTED UP to refill the reservoir. Do you think this happens by magic, or by gravity? No, it happens because of the sun evaporating water and driving weather which produces rainfall which then runs down to fill up the reservoir. The energy comes from the sun, not gravity. The same is true for wind power.
The device which occupies another great section of that front page will not operate like you think it will. That is, it is nothing more than an offcenter flywheel, that will not produce a _steady_ output any greater than the steady input from its drive motor. Like any flywheel it can store up energy in the form of angular momentum, and this energy can be released at higher _peak power_ than the drive motor may be able to produce... but not for long, and the flywheel will slow down when it does.
It's simple enough, why don't you just build one and demonstrate it running itself? I know why, and so do you.
The solar powered lamp or solar powered recharging lamp is nothing new and it is basically the same thing as the Garden Lights you can buy for a dollar at the Dollar store: A battery, a PV panel, some cheap circuitry and an LED or array. We have people on this forum who use such devices every day for lighting around their homes.
The James Hardy device is a well-known hoax. It does not run itself.
The Thane Heins claims are also false, due to improper measurements of ordinary phenomena. He has never been able to provide the necessary proof: A self-looped system. And neither has anyone else who has reproduced his work.
LTseung is a well known perpetrator and promoter of delusions. He claimed OU from simple Joule Thief circuits for a long long time, even sent out many examples of his claimed OU circuit to other researchers for testing... and his incorrect measurements were eventually tracked down to poorly calibrated Atten low-end digital oscilloscopes. Recently he has claimed that "money is no object" and that he could "Easily donate 100,000 dollars to WITTS" to purchase a 'working' QEG that would run itself. But he has not done so, because he cannot, because there is no such thing as a "working" QEG from WITTS or anywhere else.
The Charles Campbell system is also incapable of running itself or providing more energy out than in.
Bedini... and a claim of 800 percent OU !! Now I am starting to laugh out loud! NO Bedini system has EVER produced any more energy out than input! There are probably dozens of people on this very forum who have worked with Bedini systems and not a single one of them, INCLUDING BEDINI, has ever made a self-runner, which would be trivial to do if the devices even put out 130 percent OU !!
Next you have another LTseung device which is also a case of bad measurements and faulty interpretations, which cannot run itself in spite of the large OU claims.
Now we move on to "simple permanent magnet motors" which don't work, and even SMOTs !! No self looping, no self running, power comes from "mister Hand" in every case.
Next we have another real device that scavenges energy from stray RF in the environment. "Free energy" yes... because somebody else paid for the energy, radiated from radio stations and leaking from house wiring electromagnetic fields. Nothing new here at all and certainly not free in the usual sense of the word.
Then we come to LTseung's poorly measured "FLEET" Joule Thief. There are a couple of long running threads on this forum concerning that fiasco, which is not OU at all, it is an ordinary JT and if you bother to do your homework you will find out the source of the mismeasurements. Lawrence himself doesn't even promote that one any more.
Next comes some battery chargers for which more incorrect claims are made like 200 percent OU. These aren't even worthy of discussion any more, since they have been done to death and when properly measured the "ou" goes away. It's very shy you know, afraid of things like oscilloscopes and power analyzers, and only shows up when DMMs are used to measure no-load terminal voltages of the "charged" batteries.
Next come the inevitable electrolysis systems, which also incorporate lots of nonsense and false claims. HHO for example. Hydrogen gas produced by electrolysis is always diatomic, and so is oxygen gas. Many of these systems "microboil" water between the plates and thus produce high gas volume outputs... wet gas consisting of large amounts of water vapor. Not a single system of electrolyzer-ICE-generator has ever been shown to run itself, producing excess power.
Then there's the Joe Cell ! What a joke that one is! "The Joe Cell can channel this energy into the engine of a vehicle and run it without using any fuel at all." Right, and Santa Claus uses one to power his sled instead of reindeer !!
And finally.... the claims of Robert Hull. Stick a wire down your dipstick hole, connect it to some unpowered coils, and you'll get 25 percent greater gas mileage. Also a false claim, not reproducible under properly controlled testing.
Kelly's book is a great compendium of fails, hoaxes, improper measurements, false claims, with one or two things that actually work but not for the reasons claimed. Why don't you ask Kelly where he gets the electricity to run his home. Not from an ICE powered by a Joe Cell, that's for sure !
Love reading your responses! I agree with 99%. The 1% I am still unsure of is SMOT's (I can just imagine you rolling your eyes at this moment lol).
I would like your input on my thread regarding SMOT's from a couple of years ago - http://overunity.com/13819/a-closed-looped-smot-system-that-should-work/
Pete
Well, it's the neatest SMOT ramp system I've seen yet, but unfortunately it still doesn't work. I can't add anything more than what LibreEnergia posted. I'd like to see if you've gotten any further along, though.
The energy to flash the LED comes from the KE of the ball passing the coil and slows the ball down very slightly at that point. If you make a sensitive apparatus incorporating some of the features of my "SNOT" testbed you could probably measure just precisely how much energy is extracted and converted by the ball passing the LED and get some idea of the efficiency of that process. Also you could know how much energy must be resupplied per loop to overcome losses and make it keep running. On my apparatus that energy that must be replaced is very small, yet no arrangement of fixed magnets that I or anyone else has ever tried can supply it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4num28k4EnA
Wasn't there someone who claimed to have a selflooping SMOT, carried on a long thread about it, including many insults against me, LibreEnergia, and others who were challenging him to produce evidence.... and then disappeared?
Oh yes... that was elecar.
http://overunity.com/13879/building-a-self-looping-smot/nowap/
And that was the inspiration for me to build the SNOT in the first place, as I now recall. And elecar even resorted to posting a FAKED video, which is still preserved here, thanks to LibreEnergia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIL_MiuFmHE
Quote frm poit:'The 1% I am still unsure of is SMOT's (I can just imagine you rolling your eyes at this moment lol).'
Unquote
Nobody as far as I'm aware has ever tried a ball of nickel.why not a ball of nickel I say to myself.may accelerate an inch faster than iron enough to do the full circle
What you think about the skinner gravity machine?
Quote from: profitis on January 25, 2015, 10:59:17 PM
Quote frm poit:'The 1% I am still unsure of is SMOT's (I can just imagine you rolling your eyes at this moment lol).'
Unquote
Nobody as far as I'm aware has ever tried a ball of nickel.why not a ball of nickel I say to myself.may accelerate an inch faster than iron enough to do the full circle
If you think that the answer is a higher permeability ball, then you have not been paying very close attention to the question.
Nickel has a hundred different properties to iron mark E.there is simply no way to predict what will happen with a nickel smotball until a nickel smotball is tried and thoroughly tested.
Quote from: Spirit on January 26, 2015, 02:59:42 PM
What you think about the skinner gravity machine?
It's an unnecessarily complicated flywheel.
Quote from: profitis on January 25, 2015, 10:59:17 PM
Quote frm poit:'The 1% I am still unsure of is SMOT's (I can just imagine you rolling your eyes at this moment lol).'
Unquote
Nobody as far as I'm aware has ever tried a ball of nickel.why not a ball of nickel I say to myself.may accelerate an inch faster than iron enough to do the full circle
It's a good idea. Also ferrite spheres, etc. Anything that responds to a magnetic field should be tried. I expect that you might get "closer" to the self-looping point but you still won't get past it to actual self-looping.
I don't know where to get nickel or ferrite spheres of the needed accuracy for smooth rolling, though, or I'd try them myself.
Quote from: profitis on January 26, 2015, 03:55:14 PM
Nickel has a hundred different properties to iron mark E.there is simply no way to predict what will happen with a nickel smotball until a nickel smotball is tried and thoroughly tested.
So your approach is to search for nano-genies under grains of sand, one grain at a time??? How about starting with a working hypothesis, such as: "I expect this SMOT to work because of (fill in the blank) property of the ball changes the: ( static magnetic field or gravitational field ) in such a way that it is no longer conservative. I can therefore destroy energy (or send it from this world) by traversing one closed path, and create energy (or bring it into this world) by traversing the reverse path."
its density is different.its permeability is different.its friction (vanderwaals) is different.its curie point is different.its rate of expansion/contraction is different.its crystallography is different.its smell is different.its heat capacity is different its electron configuration is different.all of these things can either contribute or deduct from the nickel smotball performance.all properties.all hundred variables.the moment it flys past the top magnets is where any of these properties can catalyse a 2lot bust.its a coin toss and its woth tossing @mark E
Quote from: profitis on January 26, 2015, 05:48:45 PM
its density is different.its permeability is different.its friction (vanderwaals) is different.its curie point is different.its rate of expansion/contraction is different.its crystallography is different.its smell is different.its heat capacity is different its electron configuration is different.all of these things can either contribute or deduct from the nickel smotball performance.all properties.all hundred variables.the moment it flys past the top magnets is where any of these properties can catalyse a 2lot bust.its a coin toss and its woth tossing @mark E
So do you really do think it's worthwhile to just randomly test hoping that some random input parameter change will affect an experiment without first forming a hypothesis to test?
Nothing wrong with that approach no @mark E.if the nickel smotball results in unusual behaviour then we can begin to dive into the cause.it will invariably have something to do with the way heat is exchanged with the environment before,during and after flipping of magnetic domains.the nickel smotball is one smotball that should be tested sooner or later
Quote from: TinselKoala on January 25, 2015, 08:03:22 PM
...because of the sun evaporating water and driving weather which produces rainfall which then runs down to fill up the reservoir. The energy comes from the sun, not gravity.
Hi TinselKoala,
I have a question which you perhaps could kindly answer:
before rain fall, water vapor condenses and same amount energy which was used to evaporate water is released, isn't it ? Why we need Sun for this process ?
Thanks,
Vasik
Quote from: vasik041 on January 27, 2015, 02:44:00 PM
Hi TinselKoala,
I have a question which you perhaps could kindly answer:
before rain fall, water vapor condenses and same amount energy which was used to evaporate water is released, isn't it ? Why we need Sun for this process ?
Thanks,
Vasik
The water is transported to a higher elevation by air movement. It needs an energy source for this to happen. As it happens parcels of air are heated and are transported to higher elevation because they are less dense than the surrounding air and rise due to buoyancy.
This transport of air carries water vapour to higher elevation where it eventually condenses and falls as rain. As you suggest the condensation of air does release heat at altitude but this actually counteracts the thermal gradient that causes the air to rise in the first place.
The heating and heat release don't necessarily occur in the same location. We feel that effect as wind.
Quote from: vasik041 on January 27, 2015, 02:44:00 PM
Hi TinselKoala,
I have a question which you perhaps could kindly answer:
before rain fall, water vapor condenses and same amount energy which was used to evaporate water is released, isn't it ? Why we need Sun for this process ?
Thanks,
Vasik
If you are referring to hydroelectric dams, you left something out: the raising up of the water vapor before it condenses out over the mountains and hills which drain into the reservoir behind the dam. This requires weather, which is also driven by the sun.
If you are referring to, say, steam engines, you don't need the sun, but you do need some other energy source. You are perfectly correct that the phase-change process is energy-neutral. Good luck doing it without losses that need to be made up from outside, and good luck taking work out of the system... which will also need to be made up by supplying energy from outside.
Quote from: LibreEnergia on January 27, 2015, 05:17:15 PM
The water is transported to a higher elevation by air movement. It needs an energy source for this to happen. As it happens parcels of air are heated and are transported to higher elevation because they are less dense than the surrounding air and rise due to buoyancy.
This transport of air carries water vapour to higher elevation where it eventually condenses and falls as rain. As you suggest the condensation of air does release heat at altitude but this actually counteracts the thermal gradient that causes the air to rise in the first place.
Actually only partially true. Building cumulus clouds and thunderstorms and other heavy weather are indeed driven by the reinforced convection caused by the release of the latent heat of evaporation when the water vapor condenses. It all depends on the local "adiabatic lapse rate" which is the rate at which the air cools off with increasing altitude due to the change in pressure. If the actual surrounding air cools at a greater rate than the adiabatic lapse rate, then a rising parcel of air, which cools naturally at that rate as its pressure drops, becomes increasingly warmer than the surrounding air as it rises. When the parcel cools to the point at which condensation begins, the release of energy causes the parcel to be that much warmer than the air around it so its rise actually can accelerate.
Quote
The heating and heat release don't necessarily occur in the same location. We feel that effect as wind.
Quote from: LibreEnergia on January 27, 2015, 11:17:15 PM ---
The water is transported to a higher elevation by air movement. It needs an energy source for this to happen. As it happens parcels of air are heated and are transported to higher elevation because they are less dense than the surrounding air and rise due to buoyancy.
This transport of air carries water vapour to higher elevation where it eventually condenses and falls as rain. As you suggest the condensation of air does release heat at altitude but this actually counteracts the thermal gradient that causes the air to rise in the first place.
--- End quote ---
Actually all this activity is rather negentropic.you have a large ball(planet earth) shoved infront a massive torch(the sun) and all these intricate little patterns forming including life itself.
Quote from: TinselKoala on January 27, 2015, 06:12:06 PM
Actually only partially true. Building cumulus clouds and thunderstorms and other heavy weather are indeed driven by the reinforced convection caused by the release of the latent heat of evaporation when the water vapor condenses. It all depends on the local "adiabatic lapse rate" which is the rate at which the air cools off with increasing altitude due to the change in pressure. If the actual surrounding air cools at a greater rate than the adiabatic lapse rate, then a rising parcel of air, which cools naturally at that rate as its pressure drops, becomes increasingly warmer than the surrounding air as it rises. When the parcel cools to the point at which condensation begins, the release of energy causes the parcel to be that much warmer than the air around it so its rise actually can accelerate.
Quite so, I've utilized this effect many times on my paraglider... Climbing at over a 1000 feet a minute without an engine, you really get to appreciate the 'free energy' available in the atmosphere.
I was referring to the cumulative effect of heat transfer from bottom to top that eventually nullifies the convection by dropping the environment lapse rate below the adiabatic lapse rate.
Quote from: profitis on January 27, 2015, 06:23:54 PM
Actually all this activity is rather negentropic.you have a large ball(planet earth) shoved infront a massive torch(the sun) and all these intricate little patterns forming including life itself.
Life is not neg-entropic.. You're just not defining the system boundaries properly.
However I believe the universe(s?) probably have some neg-entropic process (probably black holes). However we don't know what goes inside one and probably never will.
Quote from: TinselKoala on January 27, 2015, 06:03:48 PM
Good luck doing it without losses that need to be made up from outside, and good luck taking work out of the system... which will also need to be made up by supplying energy from outside.
Well, I think it can be done...
Quote from libre-energia:'Life is not neg-entropic.. You're just not defining the system properly'
Unquote
Well I can tell you one thing: semi-permeable membranes definitely ARE negentropic and there are experiments one can do to back this up.funny how all life-forms possess such maxwellian demonic membranes
Quote from: vasik041 on January 28, 2015, 12:47:07 AM
Well, I think it can be done...
What part of "Some amount of water
is placed in the upper compartment" are you having trouble understanding? Do you think it gets there by magic?
Show me such a fountain turning a waterwheel and doing external work... and you will find that that fountain runs out of water in the top chamber and will have to be replenished "by magic".
Quoteyou will find that that fountain runs out of water in the top chamber
Hmmm... Interesting, I do not see why it could happen. Water from bottom compartment will be pushed thru the tube into top compartment.
:-\