Hello everyone,
Please have a look at the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKAg9Jtn2r8 or type the words "A HIGH - TECH ENERGY SAVING DEVICE" in Google Search. Is this a miracle or a scam? These guys are either great inventors or great cheaters. What do you think about this BLACK BOX gadget?
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 07, 2015, 08:31:52 AM
Hello everyone,
Please have a look at the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKAg9Jtn2r8 or type the words "A HIGH - TECH ENERGY SAVING DEVICE" in Google Search. Is this a miracle or a scam? These guys are either great inventors or great cheaters. What do you think about this BLACK BOX gadget?
well for sure its got to work right? because there is a black box, and seeing the wires there proves its legit.
and they do make a convincing argument by their clear presentation, plus they are professional enough to use a blue backdrop.
if you invest in them yourself, you do stand to be first in line to collect a ton of wealth as a result.
and if you are the first shareholder, then your pennystock could become 100's of 1000's of millions of dollars.
its your call.
you are a comedian.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 07, 2015, 08:31:52 AM
Hello everyone,
Please have a look at the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKAg9Jtn2r8 or type the words "A HIGH - TECH ENERGY SAVING DEVICE" in Google Search. Is this a miracle or a scam? These guys are either great inventors or great cheaters. What do you think about this BLACK BOX gadget?
Really? I am not impressed at all. Where are there any measurements? What was shown can easily be managed with the black box being a straight through connection for each the upper and lower wires.
Even if they are legit no web address and a gmail one does not inspire confidence in their ability to operate at a professional level.
It seems to me that almost all comments here are not very correct.
1) To SoManyWires. I do not see any reasonable arguement in your comment. You are only exercising your English writing abilities.
2) To MarkE. Your comment seems to be more reasonable. But any, even not very qualified, electrical engineer knows that: brighter lamp=more current flowing, bigger voltage drop and bigger power consumption and dimmer lamp=less current flowing, smaller voltage drop and smaller power consumption. The two dimmer lamps are at the inlet and the two brighter lamps are at the outlet. The output power, detected by the two brighter lamps, is obviously much bigger than the input power, detected by the two dimmer lamps. You do not need any measurements. You do not need any voltmeters and ammeters.
3) To Jimboot. Yes, this is a good comment. But why don't you write to their email address? I will do this today.
4) To idegen. Take your medicine and go to sleep.
5) Final words. Look, I am not an advocate of the BLACK BOX guys. But let us be correct, honest and well-intentioned.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 12, 2015, 10:31:47 AM
It seems to me that almost all comments here are not very correct.
1) To SoManyWires. I do not see any reasonable arguement in your comment. You are only exercising your English writing abilities.
2) To MarkE. Your comment seems to be more reasonable. But any, even not very qualified, electrical engineer knows that: brighter lamp=more current flowing, bigger voltage drop and bigger power consumption and dimmer lamp=less current flowing, smaller voltage drop and smaller power consumption. The two dimmer lamps are at the inlet and the two brighter lamps are at the outlet. The output power, detected by the two brighter lamps, is obviously much bigger than the input power, detected by the two dimmer lamps. You do not need any measurements. You do not need any voltmeters and ammeters.
3) To Jimboot. Yes, this is a good comment. But why don't you write to their email address? I will do this today.
4) To idegen. Take your medicine and go to sleep.
5) Final words. Look, I am not an advocate of the BLACK BOX guys. But let us be correct, honest and well-intentioned.
you ask people to be correct honest and well intentioned, and you seem content on trying to create a debate as to why a black box with a few wires attached to it would be anything but deceptive.
next your going to suggest we don't see a box, but rather a suggestion of it being a strong contender for a 'miracle' as you put it.
(and this is where you inadvertantly reconfirm the prognosis that comedy is something you find most enjoyable, and you choose to do so in conjunction to providing one of the most sketchiest examples not unlike the most primitive of contraptions being that of a square shaped object with a few wires connected, as shown on your uploaded video.
my argument (not that i feel like arguing with precambrian examples of deductive reasoning), remains unchanged other than to suggest you have finally reached your primary level, you are a comedian in training, not that i'm much better i admit.
we all know the black box in your example will never work, until 4 more wires are added, along with a 1/4 scale size juggling unicycle riding cyclops that recites poems about clarity while motioning in a circular direction continuously, that remains unfretted by notions of disillusionment given lack of the presenters transparency.
imagine if everyone else also felt the given black box with a few wires example was just enough to qualify for a device worthy of studying further, other than to discover the designers probable intentions for publishing such a video to begin with.
comedian seems appropriate, up to the point the designer chooses to steps past that line as often does when promoting non transparent examples much like the one you have chosen.
if your serious, then you are not a comedian, and possibly suffering from delusions for which the general public feels its best to demonstrate understanding and compassion towards respectfully so.
all the best
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 12, 2015, 10:31:47 AM
It seems to me that almost all comments here are not very correct.
1) To SoManyWires. I do not see any reasonable arguement in your comment. You are only exercising your English writing abilities.
2) To MarkE. Your comment seems to be more reasonable. But any, even not very qualified, electrical engineer knows that: brighter lamp=more current flowing, bigger voltage drop and bigger power consumption and dimmer lamp=less current flowing, smaller voltage drop and smaller power consumption. The two dimmer lamps are at the inlet and the two brighter lamps are at the outlet. The output power, detected by the two brighter lamps, is obviously much bigger than the input power, detected by the two dimmer lamps. You do not need any measurements. You do not need any voltmeters and ammeters.
3) To Jimboot. Yes, this is a good comment. But why don't you write to their email address? I will do this today.
4) To idegen. Take your medicine and go to sleep.
5) Final words. Look, I am not an advocate of the BLACK BOX guys. But let us be correct, honest and well-intentioned.
The demonstration fails to establish what you assert we should assume. Since such assumptions would lead to unreasonable conclusions, we can infer that such assumptions are erroneous.
Miracle or scam? Or mistaken assumptions?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-hl2W86yk
To TinselKoala:
Thank you very much for your post! Yes, you are obviously a real expert! The clip seems to be very interesting. I would need some time to consider it carefully. I cannot evaluate for the present if there is any relationship between the four-lamps clip and this single-lamp clip. Here as if some kind of inductance exists. (And too many objects around which seems to be suspicious:)). The Black Box inventors claim (we already exchange emails) that there isn't any stong electromagnetic radiation around the Black Box. I will consider the clip very carefully and will write to you in the nearest future. It is a real pleasure to talk with a qualified expert!
To SoManyWires:
I know that some healthy scepticism is required but an extreme scepticism is obviously destuctive. I wrote to these Black Box guys at ryblackbox@gmail.com as written in the text of their YouTube clip. They answered my questions. My first impression is that these men are honest. They really want collaboration and partnership for mass production of their device. They are now negotiating with several electric vehicle manufacturers. The latter are pragmatic businessmen who are not interested in theoretical discussions related to fundamental scientific problem. They are interested only in properly working devices. If a device works properly, then it is put into practice as soon as possible and that's all. No questions and no debates. A typically pragmatic approach. But why don't you write to these gentlemen at ryblackbox@gmail.com? You can ask your questions and get some authentic information from the primary source. But I would like to give you a small frienly advice -- please express your thoughts more clearly, please use shorter sentences and please use capital letters, dots and commas. In one word, please respect the audience.
All the best,
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 13, 2015, 06:00:04 AM
To SoManyWires:
I know that some healthy scepticism is required but an extreme scepticism is obviously destuctive. I wrote to these Black Box guys at ryblackbox@gmail.com as written in the text of their YouTube clip. They answered my questions. My first impression is that these men are honest. They really want collaboration and partnership for mass production of their device. They are now negotiating with several electric vehicle manufacturers. The latter are pragmatic businessmen who are not interested in theoretical discussions related to fundamental scientific problem. They are interested only in properly working devices. If a device works properly, then it is put into practice as soon as possible and that's all. No questions and no debates. A typically pragmatic approach. But why don't you write to these gentlemen at ryblackbox@gmail.com? You can ask your questions and get some authentic information from the primary source. But I would like to give you a small frienly advice -- please express your thoughts more clearly, please use shorter sentences and please use capital letters, dots and commas. In one word, please respect the audience.
All the best,
The story that they are negotiating with car manufacturers is beyond silly.
I haven't heard of any investors in over unity devices ever making money, in the whole of history. Only the 'inventor' makes money, and that's from the investors.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 12, 2015, 10:31:47 AM
It seems to me that almost all comments here are not very correct.
1) To SoManyWires. I do not see any reasonable arguement in your comment. You are only exercising your English writing abilities.
2) To MarkE. Your comment seems to be more reasonable. But any, even not very qualified, electrical engineer knows that: brighter lamp=more current flowing, bigger voltage drop and bigger power consumption and dimmer lamp=less current flowing, smaller voltage drop and smaller power consumption. The two dimmer lamps are at the inlet and the two brighter lamps are at the outlet. The output power, detected by the two brighter lamps, is obviously much bigger than the input power, detected by the two dimmer lamps. You do not need any measurements. You do not need any voltmeters and ammeters.
3) To Jimboot. Yes, this is a good comment. But why don't you write to their email address? I will do this today.
4) To idegen. Take your medicine and go to sleep.
5) Final words. Look, I am not an advocate of the BLACK BOX guys. But let us be correct, honest and well-intentioned.
Oh dear :o
Quote from: tinman on August 13, 2015, 09:27:41 AM
Oh dear :o
I suppose we could publish a primer on Ohm's law for his benefit. But seeing as how he is so deluded as to assert that car companies are negotiating for the "technology", it would seem a wasted effort.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 13, 2015, 06:00:04 AM
To SoManyWires:
I know that some healthy scepticism is required but an extreme scepticism is obviously destuctive. I wrote to these Black Box guys at ryblackbox@gmail.com as written in the text of their YouTube clip. They answered my questions. My first impression is that these men are honest. They really want collaboration and partnership for mass production of their device. They are now negotiating with several electric vehicle manufacturers. The latter are pragmatic businessmen who are not interested in theoretical discussions related to fundamental scientific problem. They are interested only in properly working devices. If a device works properly, then it is put into practice as soon as possible and that's all. No questions and no debates. A typically pragmatic approach. But why don't you write to these gentlemen at ryblackbox@gmail.com? You can ask your questions and get some authentic information from the primary source. But I would like to give you a small frienly advice -- please express your thoughts more clearly, please use shorter sentences and please use capital letters, dots and commas. In one word, please respect the audience.
All the best,
prag·mat·ic
praɡˈmadik/
adjective
adjective: pragmatic
dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.
such as one might do when asked what they think after seeing a black box with 4 wires and a light bulb.
perhaps you sir may re-evaluate your concern about showing respect as you suggested i do, and focus on seeing the forest for the trees.
while not using exact proper punctual grammerical correctness, i did offer my opinion on the device you presented here in this forum,
and you would prefer to point out things such as proper spelling or usage of capitol letters, or how you prefer to read the shortest of possible explainations, can short explainations always allow one to convey enough? while i do agree with the underlying sentiment, about the admirable talent directed towards those who do a better job of it while using less words.
if the developer of the black box you presented here would like to add a few extra words to back up their claim, others would like to read it.
ideally using their own words.
What guarantee is there that all 4 bulbs are the same? One could easily duplicate what is shown in the video by simply using 2, 6V bulbs and 2, 12V bulbs, with nothing in the box except straight-through wires.
If someone really wanted to convince people that they were telling the truth, wouldn't they show swapping the bulbs around in the video? Or some other way of proving that the bulbs are really the same ratings? I certainly would.
http://www.bulbs.com/Under_10W/Automotive_Lighting/G--3_1slash2-Shape/results.aspx?Ns=P_Wattage+Sort|0
Take 220V 24V Transformer and 4 identical 12 V Lamps and you will get the same results, as in the video. You can achieve the same results with a switching power supply.
Quote from: TheCell on August 14, 2015, 09:26:46 AM
Take 220V 24V Transformer and 4 identical 12 V Lamps and you will get the same results, as in the video. You can achieve the same results with a switching power supply.
Oh no! Don't reveal the secret technology of impedance matching! You'll kill the deal these marvelous inventors have with the imaginary car manufacturers.
Well, well, well. What furious overunity tigers write in this forum!:) You could scare the Black Box inventors!:) Show some mercy and tolerance, please!:)
Let me repeat again that I am not an advocate of the Black box inventors. Their device only seems interesting to me and that's all.
Besides I am already absolutely sure that SoManyWires, MarkE and indegen either need to see a doctor or are agents of the Big Oil. All three of you are agents of the Big Oil, aren't you? Your bosses however made a mistake when they hired unqualified and/or sick persons like you. I will not comment your posts any more.
My respect to TinselKoala and TheCell! Dear Sirs, thank you for your qualified and professional remarks! It's a pleasure to talk with you!
To TinselKoala: Yes, you are absolutely right that there is no guarantee that the four lamps are identical as they claim. Yes, they could easily get the effect by using of two couples of bulbs that are designed for different voltages. Yes, they have to show how they are swapping the bulbs or they have to find some other way to convince people that they are telling the truth and that the bulbs are really the same rating. This is a very good advice indeed! Why don't you write to them and advise them what to do? (It seems to me that these guys are not very experienced in making clips. Because making a good clip is actually a piece of art.)
To TheCell. Would you be so polite to explain your point of view in detail, please? If you connect a bulb, which is designed for 24V, directly to a 220V AC, then this bulb will almost immediately evaporate. Besides they claim that they are using a DC source. It seems to me that it is not very probable they to use some switching power supply -- the two right lamps glow much brighter than the two left lamps and this effect as if cannot be achieved by switching power supply. In my modest opinion they are using something else. But what? (I hope that this is not a scam and there isn't simply a big battery hidden inside the Black box -- as if SoManyWires, MarkE and indegen infected me with their pathological and ill-intentioned scepticism :))
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 16, 2015, 09:01:19 AM
Well, well, well. What furious overunity tigers write in this forum!:) You could scare the Black Box inventors!:) Show some mercy and tolerance, please!:)
Let me repeat again that I am not an advocate of the Black box inventors. Their device only seems interesting to me and that's all.
Besides I am already absolutely sure that SoManyWires, MarkE and indegen either need to see a doctor or are agents of the Big Oil. All three of you are agents of the Big Oil, aren't you? Your bosses however made a mistake when they hired unqualified and/or sick persons like you. I will not comment your posts any more.
And yet here you are doing so. Just as you insist that you have no material interest in promoting the foolish black box, but spend much time doing so.
Quote
My respect to TinselKoala and TheCell! Dear Sirs, thank you for your qualified and professional remarks! It's a pleasure to talk with you!
To TinselKoala: Yes, you are absolutely right that there is no guarantee that the four lamps are identical as they claim. Yes, they could easily get the effect by using of two couples of bulbs that are designed for different voltages. Yes, they have to show how they are swapping the bulbs or they have to find some other way to convince people that they are telling the truth and that the bulbs are really the same rating. This is a very good advice indeed! Why don't you write to them and advise them what to do? (It seems to me that these guys are not very experienced in making clips. Because making a good clip is actually a piece of art.)
To TheCell. Would you be so polite to explain your point of view in detail, please? If you connect a bulb, which is designed for 24V, directly to a 220V AC, then this bulb will almost immediately evaporate. Besides they claim that they are using a DC source. It seems to me that it is not very probable they to use some switching power supply -- the two right lamps glow much brighter than the two left lamps and this effect as if cannot be achieved by switching power supply. In my modest opinion they are using something else. But what? (I hope that this is not a scam and there isn't simply a big battery hidden inside the Black box -- as if SoManyWires, MarkE and indegen infected me with their pathological and ill-intentioned scepticism :))
Consider that all that is shown is two bulbs on the left of the box and two bulbs on the right of the box and that each of the four bulbs has a connection inside the box and one connection outside the box. The left side bulbs glow dimmer than the right side bulbs. There are many ways that demonstration can be arranged that are completely conventional. Since, no measurements were made that would rule out any of the conventional means of reproducing what was shown, there is no reason to believe that anything out of the ordinary is going on.
Hi everyone,
I contacted the Black Box inventors several times and we exchanged a few emails. I asked them why they don't participate in the Overunity.com forum discussions. They answered me that they have no time to waste on fools. (This is obviously a quite extreme position and it is unacceptable, of course.) I also asked them why they do not swap the bulbs. Their answer was that whatever to do they would be always declared cheaters. Again seems to be logical! Besides the Black Box inventors wrote to me also that because of secrecy they deliberately did not give details in their clip and that the mostly negative forum opinions were a true indicator that the paid agents of the Big Oil are overexcited and scared and because of this they exploded in verbal aggression and negativism. That was well said!
In one word, my impression is that the Black Box guys are honest and clever gentlemen. They really invented something special and there is no doubt about this.
Best regards,
And smile more often :)
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 19, 2015, 04:18:49 PM
Hi everyone,
I contacted the Black Box inventors several times and we exchanged a few emails. I asked them why they don't participate in the Overunity.com forum discussions. They answered me that they have no time to waste on fools. (This is obviously a quite extreme position and it is unacceptable, of course.) I also asked them why they do not swap the bulbs. Their answer was that whatever to do they would be always declared cheaters. Again seems to be logical! Besides the Black Box inventors wrote to me also that because of secrecy they deliberately did not give details in their clip and that the mostly negative forum opinions were a true indicator that the paid agents of the Big Oil are overexcited and scared and because of this they exploded in verbal aggression and negativism. That was well said!
In one word, my impression is that the Black Box guys are honest and clever gentlemen. They really invented something special and there is no doubt about this.
Best regards,
And smile more often :)
i guess its not their loss to not show proof,
if never actually having a working device.
because they not really your friends.
they do not care.
'they' seem more dishonest and 'you' know it.
were is the storefront so people can purchase one.
moving on.
you might try learning how to install solar panels in order to make a living.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 19, 2015, 04:18:49 PM
Hi everyone,
I contacted the Black Box inventors several times and we exchanged a few emails. I asked them why they don't participate in the Overunity.com forum discussions. They answered me that they have no time to waste on fools. (This is obviously a quite extreme position and it is unacceptable, of course.) I also asked them why they do not swap the bulbs. Their answer was that whatever to do they would be always declared cheaters. Again seems to be logical!
It's very logical for people who are full of BS.
Quote
Besides the Black Box inventors wrote to me also that because of secrecy they deliberately did not give details in their clip and that the mostly negative forum opinions were a true indicator that the paid agents of the Big Oil are overexcited and scared and because of this they exploded in verbal aggression and negativism. That was well said!
It is the one of the tried and true excuses offered by people making false free energy claims.
Quote
In one word, my impression is that the Black Box guys are honest and clever gentlemen. They really invented something special and there is no doubt about this.
Best regards,
And smile more often :)
Yes, people who make outlandish claims and offer even more outlandish excuses for why their evidence is junk are always "honest", just like you.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 19, 2015, 04:18:49 PM
Hi everyone,
I contacted the Black Box inventors several times and we exchanged a few emails. I asked them why they don't participate in the Overunity.com forum discussions. They answered me that they have no time to waste on fools. (This is obviously a quite extreme position and it is unacceptable, of course.) I also asked them why they do not swap the bulbs. Their answer was that whatever to do they would be always declared cheaters. Again seems to be logical! Besides the Black Box inventors wrote to me also that because of secrecy they deliberately did not give details in their clip and that the mostly negative forum opinions were a true indicator that the paid agents of the Big Oil are overexcited and scared and because of this they exploded in verbal aggression and negativism. That was well said!
In one word, my impression is that the Black Box guys are honest and clever gentlemen. They really invented something special and there is no doubt about this.
Best regards,
And smile more often :)
peterqv98
Would it help you believe or understand that these guys are showing nothing out of the ordinary if i built a device that work's just as they show-->i'll even swap the globes around,and run it of a 12 volt battery,as they claim car manufactures are chasing there tech.
It's quite funny actually,as i fool'd myself with the very same effect some years back. But once i was shown by poynt what was going on,turns out i made myself a boost converter-nothing more.
Quote from: tinman on August 20, 2015, 05:55:47 AM
peterqv98
Would it help you believe or understand that these guys are showing nothing out of the ordinary if i built a device that work's just as they show-->i'll even swap the globes around,and run it of a 12 volt battery,as they claim car manufactures are chasing there tech.
It's quite funny actually,as i fool'd myself with the very same effect some years back. But once i was shown by poynt what was going on,turns out i made myself a boost converter-nothing more.
The whole reason that no measurements are presented is because measurements would show that there is absolutely nothing special happening.
Quote from: SoManyWires on August 19, 2015, 06:24:57 PM
i guess its not their loss to not show proof,
if never actually having a working device.
because they not really your friends.
they do not care.
'they' seem more dishonest and 'you' know it.
were is the storefront so people can purchase one.
moving on.
you might try learning how to install solar panels in order to make a living.
Ironically for Peter, every efficient solar PV inverter in the world performs maximum power point tracking which transforms the effective load impedance in order to get the most power possible under any instant condition from the solar panel string / array.
To tinman:
This is very interesting! Would you be so polite to explain in detail what have you done several years ago? Because the boost converter is not able to generate the black box effect if the four bulbs are identical.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 20, 2015, 09:15:18 AM
To tinman:
This is very interesting! Would you be so polite to explain in detail what have you done several years ago? Because the boost converter is not able to generate the black box effect if the four bulbs are identical.
A boost converter will do exactly that if the bulbs are placed as they have them in the black box video.
The two globes on the input side are in series with another resistor,that being the inductor.
Where as the two globes on the output side will be parallel across that inductor.
Quote from: tinman on August 20, 2015, 09:43:09 AM
A boost converter will do exactly that if the bulbs are placed as they have them in the black box video.
The two globes on the input side are in series with another resistor,that being the inductor.
Where as the two globes on the output side will be parallel across that inductor.
It is all just Ohm's Law. Any power converter that has a well filtered input transforms the impedance of the output as seen by the input. Taking a first approximation where the converter is considered 100% efficient, at any given output voltage to input voltage ratio, the reflected impedance Zout_reflected is: Zout_reflected = (Vin/Vout)
2 * Zout. So, if for purposes of argument one had two one Ohm resistors: Rin and Rout and a 12V supply then without a DC-DC converter:
V
RIN = V
ROUT = 6V
P
RIN = V
RIN2/R
IN = 6
2/1 = 36W
P
ROUT = V
ROUT2/R
OUT = 6
2/1 = 36W
But stick a 2:1 voltage converter in the way, and the reflected impedance of R
OUT at the input becomes 4 Ohms. Loop current drops from 6A to 2.4A. The voltage across R
IN drops to 2.4V, while the voltage across the power converter input becomes 9.6V. The power dissipated by R
IN becomes 5.76W. The voltage at the output of the voltage converter is half the input: 4.8V, and the power dissipated by R
OUT becomes 23.04W, identically 4X the power dissipated by R
IN.
Hi everyone :),
I am glad that the discussion tends to become already more constructive.
To tinman: Actually I did not understand again what exactly have you done several years ago. Would you be so polite to send some drawings?
To MarkE: But your perfect mathematical calculations have nothing to do with the black box performance. Yet any mathematical model has to be related, more or less, to physical reality. Please reconsider carefully again you calculations and you will easily see that some of your basic assumptions are entirely wrong.
Quote from: peterqv98 on August 24, 2015, 07:07:55 AM
Hi everyone :),
I am glad that the discussion tends to become already more constructive.
To tinman: Actually I did not understand again what exactly have you done several years ago. Would you be so polite to send some drawings?
To MarkE: But your perfect mathematical calculations have nothing to do with the black box performance. Yet any mathematical model has to be related, more or less, to physical reality. Please reconsider carefully again you calculations and you will easily see that some of your basic assumptions are entirely wrong.
LOL, come up with some measurements and we will see who is full of it.