This is a diagram of my 2011 experiment (circles here represent sound waves). It's very simple, you need 40 dollars for materials. The speakers presented here are usual cheap computer speakers; you can connect the speakers to the sound card of your computer: there will still be no feedback on them. The feedback will go to the tee; nuances in the sound amplifying cascades are possible - the speaker may also burn out. Note that loudspeakers are both emitters and absorbers of acoustic energy; it is an acoustic feedback system. Why 108 cm between the centers of the speakers - I don't know, I just wanted it to be so; in Buddhism the number 108 is sacred. I'm not seeing much sense myself in making a full-scale model again: hearing the clap of a fuse is not very interesting, and I am not capable of anything more in electrical engineering, alas. The frequency of the sinusoid must be carefully selected: at some frequency a "miracle" of electric energy feedback will happen.
Note that this is prior-art, published also here: https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066
It cannot be patented.
One thing worth exploring about this system is. While signal-amplifying cascades of speakers try to move the speaker cones to produce sound waves, they are opposed by sound waves coming from opposite speakers. This creates an electrically unresolvable tension, a singularity I would say.
It will depend on phasing. Depending on the diameter of the circle and the frequency, they could cancel, partial cancel, reinforce or rip the cones to shreds.
If you want to use the voice coils as generators, you will need some fancy switching.
Quote from: Paul-R on December 12, 2020, 06:26:38 PM
It will depend on phasing. Depending on the diameter of the circle and the frequency, they could cancel, partial cancel, reinforce or rip the cones to shreds.
If you want to use the voice coils as generators, you will need some fancy switching.
In my experiment it wasn't too problematic for 10W-rated speakers. Only the fuze rated 15A on an electric tee blew. Which is of course totally unexpected. I do not think speakers started to draw 3KW, they would burn to ashes.
Quote from: aleks on December 12, 2020, 10:34:30 PM
Only the fuze rated 15A on an electric tee blew.
This could be an inductive spike. it could be quite significant.
Quote from: Paul-R on December 13, 2020, 06:54:48 AM
This could be an inductive spike. it could be quite significant.
Not sure about "spike". Fuzes usually do not react on spikes, they need time to fire-up. It was some serious build-up of voltage, and backsurge, as I was connected to a municipal powergrid.
Quote from: aleks on December 13, 2020, 07:41:05 AM
Not sure about "spike". Fuzes usually do not react on spikes, they need time to fire-up. It was some serious build-up of voltage, and backsurge, as I was connected to a municipal powergrid.
Analog multi-meter + digital multi-meter,limit physical ?
Dirac surge, inrush Voltage,inrush Amperage,inrush Pulsation !?
Dirac Sea,Moray Sea,TV-'snow' to Tele-Audio-Vision,TAV 'snow',RANDOM process ( Farnsworth !?)
Device in cool-able ambient,up ultra ?
Sincere
OCWL
Quote from: lancaIV on December 13, 2020, 08:09:50 AM
Analog multi-meter + digital multi-meter,limit physical ?
Dirac surge, inrush Voltage,inrush Amperage,inrush Pulsation !?
Dirac Sea,Moray Sea,TV-'snow' to Tele-Audio-Vision,TAV 'snow',RANDOM process ( Farnsworth !?)
Device in cool-able ambient,up ultra ?
Sincere
OCWL
Well, I'm not an expert in such keywords, and in electric engineering in general; I understand how electricity works, but designing a complex system is out of my interest. All I can say is that speakers were not damaged. So, whatever surge there was, it did not damage a rather basic signal-amplifying circuitry of cheap analog loudspeakers. What is important is that all loudspeakers amplify the same sinewave signal source, without any phase delay. The frequency I believe depends on distances, room modes, and ambient temperature which was I guess 25C. The cheap small high-frequency speaker cones are usually directional, so distance from the flooring is not so much an important factor - in my experiment the speaker cones were about 15cm off the floor.
When I visited between 2005-2010 in average 3x per week the Campo&Cardoso electric repair office in O'Porto/PT,ancient a transformer production entity,there I met an engineer,whose branch was/is? loudspeaker - high end- construction !
He told me about mono-/stereo hear differences from us male humens !
Your description reminds me the reclam in the End-80' about the new sound system : dolby surround ,and as video-audio example about virtual-synthetical aesthetiks a concert hall stage,with curtains down and behind - instead an orchestra- a DCD ( later DVD) play recorder,the sound to the audience,included ECHO Hall,like ' in real' ,and no " play back",as so often !
Sincere
OCWL
p.s.: aether22 tread " extreme disinterest .....," #1 given links comparing with here #1 image ,german : GEDANKENECHO ! French ! : Deja-vu ,Deja-ouvie !
Quote from: lancaIV on December 13, 2020, 10:20:53 AMYour description reminds me the reclam in the End-80' about the new dound system : dolby surround ,and as video-audio example about virtual-synthetical aesthetiks a concert hall stage,with curtains down and behind - instead an orchestra- a DCD ( later DVD) play recorder,the sound to the audience,included ECHO Hall,like ' in real' ,and no " play back",as so often !
You are right, this does look like home-theater surround-sound system. But there are, of course, uncomparable differences, and unexpected operation modes. There's a vast world to explore in opposite-speaker designs. Overunity FTW.
Quote from: Paul-R on December 12, 2020, 06:26:38 PM
It will depend on phasing. Depending on the diameter of the circle and the frequency, they could cancel, partial cancel, reinforce or rip the cones to shreds.
Ah, forgot to reply to this comment. The "sinewave frequency" I'm speaking about does exactly that, affects the balance between speaker cone movement and opposition: the correct frequency puts the system into a paradoxical state at which all 6 speaker cones are opposed by soundwaves from the opposite loudspeakers. If this system is completely symmetric (a hexagon), it requires only a single sinewave signal source of correct frequency to put it into this state.
As I have not got beyond a blown fuse, I'm unable to give estimations how this system evolves over time. It's very possible it produces an oscillation naturally (moments of paradox followed by moments of relaxation).
acoustical sound feedback energy :
"hearing" a. Kraftwerk sound in that ART&KIND and EURYTHMICS "1984" and The Human League "Being Boiled"
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=eurythmics+1984 (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=eurythmics+1984)+
Why is the Colosseum/Arena round,sur-rounding wave !? Soccer :home team 12th player , to 10th and less the opposite team diminuaiser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiKFYTFJ_kw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiKFYTFJ_kw) impressive influencing the other :o !
by compressed force expression 8) (or only 1%,not all)
WE R the CAT,you only the MOUSE ! (Attention : inverse Tom&Jerry ::) )
Sincere
OCWL
Quote from: aleks on December 15, 2020, 02:36:29 AM
Ah, forgot to reply to this comment. The "sinewave frequency" I'm speaking about does exactly that, affects the balance between speaker cone movement and opposition: the correct frequency puts the system into a paradoxical state at which all 6 speaker cones are opposed by soundwaves from the opposite loudspeakers. If this system is completely symmetric (a hexagon), it requires only a single sinewave signal source of correct frequency to put it into this state.
As I have not got beyond a blown fuse, I'm unable to give estimations how this system evolves over time. It's very possible it produces an oscillation naturally (moments of paradox followed by moments of relaxation).
This is worth a look: https://youtu.be/rdLMtEZqGdE (https://youtu.be/rdLMtEZqGdE)
Quote from: NdaClouDzzz on December 15, 2020, 05:37:28 AM
This is worth a look: https://youtu.be/rdLMtEZqGdE (https://youtu.be/rdLMtEZqGdE)
I think I always believed TPU and overunity devices were connected with air, or in-material super-sonic waves. Air/matter transmits energy via physical means, which I would say is "orthogonal" to electricity. It allows to get that electrical "squeeze" which frees a pathway to the energy from space/aether/whatever. The acoustical system presented here, if it works the way I think, is one of the most efficient and scalable ways to get that "squeeze".
´power(energy) source : all above ,actuall official above 0°K temperature=pressure=density
http://www.rexresearch.com/invnindx.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/invnindx.htm) A-Z
photonic(visual)-phononic(acoustical) feedback system ! All possible iniciation: im-pulse !( like choke) sources !
the human body : 37° C
https://peswiki.com/directory:fellows-thermoacoustic-cycle-tac-generator (https://peswiki.com/directory:fellows-thermoacoustic-cycle-tac-generator)
future ? like solar dots http://www.rexresearch.com/sutera/sutera.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/sutera/sutera.htm) http://www.rexresearch.com/szili/szili.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/szili/szili.htm)
MEMS-TAR pacemaker
basic permanent source X https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF0Xz9h7mOde4y39ANX9DBw (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF0Xz9h7mOde4y39ANX9DBw) amplification for :
open space-maker,up to 24/365 "earthonaut"-overall : https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dune (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=dune)+ desertsmen wear :
12 Wmax per human body
http://www.rexresearch.com/cuinanoagwire/cuinanoag.html (http://www.rexresearch.com/cuinanoagwire/cuinanoag.html)
Super-insulated clothing could eliminate need for indoor heating Tect-free living,only for bad weather protection ?
Where possible ?!
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=LLDYX_b2Ds72gQa585LYBA&q=rexresearch+nano+fiber+wear&oq=rexresearch+nano+fiber+wear&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFDvygZYwesGYICCB2gAcAB4AIABlgGIAcoLkgEEMS4xMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwj2vLyxgtDtAhVOe8AKHbm5BEsQ4dUDCAw (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=LLDYX_b2Ds72gQa585LYBA&q=rexresearch+nano+fiber+wear&oq=rexresearch+nano+fiber+wear&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFDvygZYwesGYICCB2gAcAB4AIABlgGIAcoLkgEEMS4xMpgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrAAQE&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwj2vLyxgtDtAhVOe8AKHbm5BEsQ4dUDCAw)
http://www.rexresearch.com/tarakcioglu/tarakcioglu.html
(http://www.rexresearch.com/tarakcioglu/tarakcioglu.html)
http://www.rexresearch.com/nanosilver/nanoagpat.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/nanosilver/nanoagpat.htm)
The Earth ,inner temperature ? : outer velocity/speed 40000 km /24 h wind water solar walls-overheat cars-overheat
Solarsystem velocity/speed ?
cosmic energy ,stars energy,solar radiation,lunar radiation, earth radiation like Radon/Radium ,atmospheric nitrogen/hydrogen/oxygen
carbondioxid as industrial raw material,for refrigerant cycles Wilhelm Haeberle ,window insulation gas ,et cet. ...
Corona family viruses/viriones therapy : uv treated saltwater duche http://www.rexresearch.com/tsen-uv/tsen.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/tsen-uv/tsen.htm)
each human Echo Hall = memory feed and feedback power (energy) system deja-...... actio/reactio
search&found power(energy),angryness power (energy) about ourself= we R not 100% perfect and only 50% from men,male or female ,the specific case : transsexuals are in se.xus change ,probably in doubt/s momentum
It would be a dream to scale-down this system using piezo-electric elements. Haha, this is a fantasy, but how about energizing a smartphone for eternity? ;D
This is a good inspirational video on how acoustical waves behave physically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3oItpVa9fs
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lordi+hard+rock+hallelujah+live (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lordi+hard+rock+hallelujah+live)
muse changes
Thermalacoustic wave in "virtual demonstration" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvipPYFebWc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvipPYFebWc)
soft rock effect
Thermalacoustic wave in real demonstration : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_embassy_hostage_crisis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_embassy_hostage_crisis)
when and how crashing bones,walls,things to grain/powder !? Know-ing : Specific frequency !
Extra-/Intra-Corporal https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=nierensteinzertruemmerer (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=nierensteinzertruemmerer)
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.uniklinikum-leipzig.de/einrichtungen/urologie/Seiten/behandlungsmethoden-eswl.aspx (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https://www.uniklinikum-leipzig.de/einrichtungen/urologie/Seiten/behandlungsmethoden-eswl.aspx)
shock wave lithotripsy
TORNADO/HURRICAN-"AUGE"-effect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAVnz5WECRQ
Usherenko
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=usherenko+effekt (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=usherenko+effekt)
Wind-hex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsrhU0gRu5U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsrhU0gRu5U)
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=mPjZX8_0POTggweqwo_wBg&q=windhexe+vortex+mill&oq=windhexe+vortex+mill&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFD7K1j7K2DVOGgAcAB4AIABbYgBygGSAQMxLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjPoLLMu9LtAhVk8OAKHSrhA24Q4dUDCAw (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&ei=mPjZX8_0POTggweqwo_wBg&q=windhexe+vortex+mill&oq=windhexe+vortex+mill&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQDFD7K1j7K2DVOGgAcAB4AIABbYgBygGSAQMxLjGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6wAEB&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjPoLLMu9LtAhVk8OAKHSrhA24Q4dUDCAw)
Just a bump.
Does anyone here have a serious background in computational electric engineering? If anyone is available to do some freelancer work, you can contact me via aleksey.vaneev@gmail.com
What I need is a modeling and calculation of this proposed electro-mechanical system (basic circuit modeling won't do). While this system may look pretty much "meaningless", it does have its system of EE equations. What interests me is to find singularities in spectral domain. A singularity is a mode with "infinite" gain. The system basically has only two degrees of freedom - radius and oscillator frequency (plus speaker amplifier's cascade variety).
After a bit of thought, I'll add that systems where flywheel is coupled to electrogenerator that accelerates the flywheel at the same time, work on the same underlying paradox as my acoustical system: electricity generation and spending paradox arising in such system. The main benefit of my system is that it can probably be scaled at will and it's very light in weight.
I won't be surprised if "bifilar coils" or anything similar work on the same principle: one coil generates, the other spends energy. So, a theory for all "free energy devices". Practical schemes used worldwide are either generating or spending, putting generation and spending into feedback may seem "insane" for any practical electric engineer.
Another batch of thoughts. In recent 2-4 years, YouTubers started uploading "speaker with coil" videos. I'm not talking they are not fake, but I'll share my thoughts in the context of "energy spending and generation paradox", why they may be legit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUnUPaNH7xM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUnUPaNH7xM)
I'd like to point out that a suspended magnet above is a mass with magnetic field: it is being accelerated by gravity. Then the voice coil produces a current and moves the cone at the same time since suspended magnet is moving (even if just slightly and at some frequency). Then this current is fed back to the voice coil. It's a "bifilar winding" of sorts - one is generating and the other is spending. As a result the suspended magnet is pushed back, and overall an oscillation happens.
The possible problem, as mentioned in brief in comments by the author, the lamps do not shine for too long. The reason may be the permanent magnets demagnetizing under bifilar coil stresses. So, a more "perpetual" variant may have a same general construct, but using coils and capacitors (but I'm not an EE), without permanent magnets that are unreliable. Not sure if a suspended mass is necessary if capacitor is large and "slow" enough. Like in my "acoustic energy system", a "delay" is important, to create a large enough boost in power spectrum: the distance between speakers is a kind of capacitance, and the air is an energy medium "orthogonal" to electricity.
I'd also like to point that the whole construct is very reminiscent of "early age UFOs" in shape, if scaled up greatly. The speaker cone may produce vibrations that produce a wing-like effect, if its movement is made asymmetric with some opening-closing "pressure channels". So, a man-made UFO theory for you right here. (there may be anti-gravity-based UFOs, not sure if they are man-made as no public anti-gravity theory exists)
Im prepared to dismiss any gesture of "draining" a magnets power in this manner.
Even our original iron or ceramic magnets were known to last over 100 years of heavy use.
There are magnetic levitation devices still holding up their repellent for the same time.
But back to this situation:
If we examine the conditions of say a thermo-acoustic engine
or the thermo-acoustic caveman fireplace,
Or the decibel amplification of an acoustically engineered auditorium
This is exactly the same resonant feedback that can ignite infinite currents and
burn up our electrical circuitry.
The Tesla 'earthquake machine' is another example but in the physical domain.
Now lets consider an inside out speaker.
Meaning a stationary cone-coil and the magnet instead moves.
Now invert an opposite (generating) cone on the other side.
If fired with 1/2 wave pulses - i would expect generation at both coils.
One for half cyle (off duty), and the other a full wave.
Quote from: sm0ky2 on September 09, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Im prepared to dismiss any gesture of "draining" a magnets power in this manner.
Even our original iron or ceramic magnets were known to last over 100 years of heavy use.
I disagree on this. The experimenter claimed 200-500W generation fades away. The only culprit may be permanent magnets (maybe just one of them).
Quote from: sm0ky2 on September 09, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
If we examine the conditions of say a thermo-acoustic engine
or the thermo-acoustic caveman fireplace,
Or the decibel amplification of an acoustically engineered auditorium
This is exactly the same resonant feedback that can ignite infinite currents and
burn up our electrical circuitry.
I disagree. There are no sort of electric coupling exists in these conditions, no medium for "energy from space" to flow from. It's all an acoustical "capacitance", without any orthogonal electric current, no "energy feedback" from the audience, it's all a noise of voices. I think electrons are necessary, be them in voice coil amplifier or a generator of a whywheel device.
Quote from: sm0ky2 on September 09, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Now lets consider an inside out speaker.
Meaning a stationary cone-coil and the magnet instead moves.
Now invert an opposite (generating) cone on the other side.
If fired with 1/2 wave pulses - i would expect generation at both coils.
One for half cyle (off duty), and the other a full wave.
If both are in feedback mode, something may be made out of such arrangement, but I expect the effect to be tiny as there's not enough capacitance or "delay". Maybe I misunderstood this explanation. cone-to-cone at a distance and with a feedback is a better arrangement, like shown on my rough scheme.
Quote from: sm0ky2 on September 09, 2022, 03:41:44 PM
Now lets consider an inside out speaker.
Meaning a stationary cone-coil and the magnet instead moves.
Now invert an opposite (generating) cone on the other side.
If fired with 1/2 wave pulses - i would expect generation at both coils.
One for half cyle (off duty), and the other a full wave.
I'll add that my proposed "energy system" is a direct "energy generation opposing spending" since all speakers are spending energy, but at the same time are opposed by each other and also partially turn into generators. A "sqeeze" happens. If speakers are placed sequentially as you propose, the system may also be turned into opposition, but sinewaves are probably better. The problem with sequential arrangement is that acoustic waves of the first speaker won't reach the second cone much - they will be reflected by the magnet on the back of the cone. If I understand your proposal correctly. I do not really see how to make things better by anything else than opposing cones, with the frequency and distances tuned to create at least 90 degrees phase difference between generating and spending energy waves.
Audience amplification and thermo-acoustic fireplace examples have too much diffusion happening. My proposal requires exact resonant frequencies and high-enough energy (at least several watts on a SINGLE frequency). As far as I remember I've played them pretty loud, close to the level of obnoxious (loud acoustic sound is a problem of the system, but it can be minimized if enclosed in an insulating box).
I would not underestimate the fact speakers in my test were all connected to the same energy source, even if this may sound unimportant. We are in the field of loosely explored.
Here's why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjyPmFKxCU&t=300s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgjyPmFKxCU&t=300s)
A "wave field" of sorts may be created by acoustic waves, so it's possible when a simple soundwave meets an opposing force, it works like a spring, affecting preceding fronts. A continuous soundwave basically looks like a train of compressed matter. More importantly, as the inspirational video above shows, the fronts "stay in place" like bricks, they do not propagate like a bullet. This is a bit another way to look at what happens in acoustics. It's "worm crawling" and not a "flight".
What i was interested in is pinging an object, record the soundwave then wire the object with laminated copperwire and pulse that waveform trough the copperwire.. would it fly? Break? Sound can break glas but what about copper wire on an object? Maybe on wood steel aluminium etc :P ???
Quote from: indigo22 on September 11, 2022, 02:31:12 AM
What i was interested in is pinging an object, record the soundwave then wire the object with laminated copperwire and pulse that waveform trough the copperwire.. would it fly? Break? Sound can break glas but what about copper wire on an object? Maybe on wood steel aluminium etc :P ???
Haha, sounds like sound-fiction. :-) But yeah, I get the idea like making a feedback of its atomic structure's sound. Electricity is not acoustics, there's no immediate coupling for any interaction to take place.
Yes there is a sound wave you can record with cooledit, you can see the ac waveform, put that into the wire
I'd like to point out at Tesla Coils. If you look at the discharges differently, you'll immediately start seeing that surrounding space is an ocean of electric energy and it has "ground" contacts everywhere. The energy emitted by Tesla Coil just vanishes into thin air!
Here's a new advancement from a YouTuber: a voice coil without permanent magnet. Doable, but seems not so efficient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqGmMFo1jGg
Here's a bit of research on Tesla Coil in vacuum. Obviously, the energy "evaporates" into thin air despite there are no ions in the atmosphere: no ions - no charge carriers to accept the energy. Funny, isn't it? Except in deep vacuum it looks like a corona, not a discharge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdRz3GBR_Qs
This is some cool latest DIY experiment that makes use of electro-acoustical opposition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUDSH4BNKcc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUDSH4BNKcc)
Again, not endorsing this as something real, but the idea looks great.
This device looks believable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnAE0hqgH6Y
While it's not about acoustics, I think the underlying principle of these devices is similar: creation of "sqeeze" by means of creating opposing forces of the motor and a flywheel.
This is purely a theoretic idea, but I think if it's possible to create energy-generating "sqeeze" in the domain of electricity and acoustic waves, a similar approach can be applied to gravity. Such a theoretic device can be comprised of a "pull down" element opposed by a "push up" element, in at least 90 degree difference, based on force vector measurement. The "pull down" and "push up" elements may be connected in "switched" manner (changing the force's vector sign).
I'll also add my vision on how the device mentioned in a previous post works: the motor is fed by force produced at the "microwave coils". At the same time the motor adds rotation energy to the flywheel which drives the "microwave coils". Here I can see 90 degree difference between forces. Like capacitor, a coil adds a phase delay. So, a flywheel force "lags" behind motor force, creating a required "sqeeze".
Grebennikov is not well-known beyond Russia, but this scientist discovered the "secret" of gravity force. In some interviews, however, he admitted stopping research, because of unknown geopolitical complications of gravity devices. In light of my idea outlined above, a wing of an insect may represent the outlined device.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpupEgw2Es
This short video is not about free energy, but it clearly demonstrates how acoustical vibrations are transformed into electricity. A kind of inspirational video.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ylkNbZk4aac
Very nice DIY device involving acoustical speaker. Reacts fluidly to bulb load meaning feedback aspect is in full effect. The construct has a pretty low "fake factor" in my opinion. Also, the device operates longer than what start-up battery may allow; visual rotation of the board rules out external powering via air.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wddlBR-MYF4
The most powerful Tesla Coil, applied as a synthesizer. The creator says it's 380KW device. Again, obviously this huge amount of energy goes into thin air, or back into aether. Note that this much power creates ball lightnings from time to time, interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLhYiQbfSNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLhYiQbfSNU)
This is my version.
https://youtu.be/uxGdLtpGmSY
Here's an overview of how such a system could work:
A piezoelectric material is placed inside an audio chamber or resonator, which is designed to amplify and sustain a specific frequency of sound wave. The size and shape of the chamber, as well as the material properties of the piezoelectric material, would be carefully chosen to maximize the acoustoelectric effect.
The electrical signal generated by the piezoelectric material is then used to trigger a back EMF coil loop,The feedback loop created by the back EMF coil loop will help sustain the sound wave within the chamber, and thus the acoustoelectric effect.
the system is first triggered by an external force, like a tap on the audio chamber or a burst of sound. This causes the audio chamber to resonate and the piezoelectric material to vibrate, generating a voltage spike that is fed into one of the coils (let's call it the "trigger coil") of the back EMF loop. The back EMF loop consists of two speaker coils, which are also used as part of the audio feedback loop. As the back EMF loop generates a voltage spike, it causes the speaker coils to vibrate, which in turn keeps the audio feedback amplitude strong in the audio chamber, sustaining the vibrations of the piezoelectric material.
The audio tone generated by the speaker is then fed back into the audio chamber, where it reinforces the original trigger, causing the speaker to continue vibrating and generating a sustained feedback loop. This sustained feedback loop keeps the back EMF and audio tone going, allowing the system to continue generating electricity.
So in summary, the speaker has two jobs in this system: (1) to generate the initial voltage spike and (2) to vibrate and generate an audio tone that sustains the feedback loop. By using the speaker in this way, we can create a self-sustaining system that generates electricity without the need for an external power source. The sustained sound wave within the chamber will continue to cause the piezoelectric material to vibrate and generate electrical signals, which can be used as triggers for the back EMF coil loop. As long as the feedback loop is maintained, the system should be able to sustain itself without any external power input. The output of the back EMF coil loop could be used to power a load, such as a battery or electronic device.
Overall, the key to making this system work would be careful design and optimization of the audio chamber, the piezoelectric material, and the back EMF coil loop. The system would also need to be carefully tuned to the resonant frequency of the audio chamber to maximize the acoustoelectric effect. The audio chamber needs to be designed to resonate at the same frequency as the speaker coils' optimal frequency, which is also the frequency of the audio tone that triggers the back EMF loop. This resonance will amplify the audio tone and maintain the feedback loop, which allows for the back EMF to bounce back and forth between the coils and generate power that can be tapped into. The resonance can be controlled and maintained by adjusting the size and shape of the audio chamber and the frequency of the audio tone.
One advantage of this approach is that it doesn't require any external power source or battery, making it self-sustaining. Another advantage is that it could potentially be made from low-cost materials, such as piezoelectric ceramics and simple audio speakers.Traditional loudspeakers can suffer from significant energy losses, and piezoelectric transducers can have relatively low efficiencies, the proposed system is not based solely on either of these components. Instead, it combines the unique properties of piezoelectric materials and audio chambers to create a system that is designed to maximize the acoustoelectric effect and minimize losses.
In addition, the system utilizes a back EMF feedback loop to sustain the sound wave within the audio chamber, which further increases efficiency. While it's true that no system can be 100% efficient, this approach has the potential to generate usable amounts of electricity without an external power source.
the self-sustaining loop is designed to have a net positive energy output, meaning that it produces more energy than it consumes. This excess energy can be used to sustain the system, even if there are inefficiencies in some parts of the loop. While it is ideal to have a self-sustaining loop running at maximum efficiency, it is not necessary for the system to sustain itself. The back EMF spike is just one part of the system, and there are other means by which the system can generate and replenish energy if you understand how this works.
8 / 6 = 1.333~
(enters a meditative trance [Ohm])
Thanks for your presentation, Joel. I think it must be a lot simpler like placing two piezo-electric speakers very close to each other and adding some not very elaborate circuitry. The only thing that should matter is force created orthogonally to force that drives another speaker. From my experiment, the power surge happened outside all circuitries, so it's very possible that "energy from space" may appear/channel from a place that you may not expect it to appear at (back EMF in your explanation I assume). I even think that the whole system happened to raise to another voltage level, hence the surge happened (voltage relativity of some kind).
All voltage is relative.
When we measure 1 Volt: this is in relation to some comparative point.
I.e. other side of the battery/capacitor
But any two charges of different magnitude will present a Voltage difference between them.
This is important to the way we measure "power"
Power is not an absolute quantity, but a comparative one.
Einstein's equations mandate that all energy is relative.
In electric and magnetic domains We are explicitly dealing with relativistic velocities.
Observe the same system from a different perspective and all our numbers change
This is why in our field of research it is absolutely critical to measure our experiments from the same perspective across the scope of the experiment.
Many tinkerers have gone astray in this conceptual realization, which can result in improper measurements, inaccurate data, etc.
And this doesn't just include simple scope probe errors, it pervades every area of physics.
Heres a thought experiment:
In a universe perpetually heading towards Entropy:
Do we not have an inexhaustible thermal gradient to tap into?
Having to refresh my memory of the exact definition of entropy I found this:
"a thermodynamic quantity representing the unavailability of a system's thermal energy for conversion into mechanical work, often interpreted as the degree of disorder or randomness in the system."
So it would seem 'no' is the answer unfortunately. I could be wrong but that's the way I interpret it from the above definition. It is certainly possible that this 'official' definition is something 'they' are using to hide from people the potential energy available there.
Quote from: aleks on February 23, 2023, 10:15:00 PM
Grebennikov is not well-known beyond Russia, but this scientist discovered the "secret" of gravity force. In some interviews, however, he admitted stopping research, because of unknown geopolitical complications of gravity devices. In light of my idea outlined above, a wing of an insect may represent the outlined device.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpupEgw2Es (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpupEgw2Es)
Actually I read all about him over 20 years ago. Fascinating info. As a joke I made a gift for a friend that looked like his device after telling her all about it the week before. She almost bought it for a minute...
smoky, by "voltage relativity" I've meant that there may arise an additional "circuit" of voltage on top of existing one, otherwise it's impossible to connect aether energy to conventional electricity. the whole system raised to another level of voltage while having inner voltages intact.
"way towards entropy death of universe" is just a model that arises when you apply thermodynamics laws that are local and closed-system by definition to the whole universe. the true nature of mechanisms of coming of universe into existence is a debatable topic. even by commonly studied understanding it comes from "big bang" explosion, but where does energy come for the explosion? it's an open system and debate about an open system.
so, when one creates a "singularity" the way I've outlined, this taps into aether energy as in an open system. I believe this can even be shown in an elaborate physical modeling, except it requires precise electro-acoustical model. there must a resonant mode exist that goes beyond common physics.
The simplest explanation what happened in the originally posted scheme is that energy from the aether (back EMF) appeared at another frequency: whereas municipal grid is 50Hz, the voltage burst happened at DC or some other frequency. The source point of back EMF must be the voice coil, because it's the only electrical contact with the speaker cone. So, theoretically the back EMF is at another frequency whereas amplifier cascade transforms 220V/50Hz into voice coil oscillation. It's very possible that amplifier cascade of the speakers performed reverse transformation at another frequency in the process, producing a surge on the tee. But I still can't fully wrap my mind how that was possible over the same wires. It should involve electricity at different frequencies so that they may flow in different directions (like Ethernet over powerline).
This means that for a system with piezo-electrics to work, the amplifier that drives the piezo-electric must have two decoupled (by means of capacitors) modes/routes of operation: for driving the piezo-electric (high, preferably ultra-sonic frequency), and for routing back EMF to a battery (low-frequency). I guess one contact of the battery should go to ground. Schottky diode for decoupling maybe?
About demagnetizing magnets:
"With a strong enough magnetic field of opposite polarity, it is therefore possible to demagnetize the magnet whether this comes from another permanent magnet, or a solenoid."
https://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae472.cfm (https://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae472.cfm)
So, OU devices based on drive by permanent magnets and having opposing polarity in the system with vibration will demagnetize eventually, may be in minutes or in years. For anything truly OU, a device without opposing permanent magnetic fields should be constructed, and the best approach is electro-acoustical devices I'm talking here in this thread. Piezo-materials would be the best as they produce and absorb soundwaves naturally, on crystal lattice level.
@ aleks
If we have a circuit
And then we have an outside potential
Let us add this potential in series to our known circuit.
How does this affect your measurement?
Let's take it a step further:
Wire a battery in series with itself (using diodes is probably the easiest)
Then duplicate this and run them in parallel
Why does the power increase?
Now, if we feed this back into the battery with double voltage, double current..:
What will happen?
smoky, I'm not sure I can visualize what you are talking about. Maybe you are trying to imagine such opposition without acoustics or electro-magnetism, just by wiring batteries in some way? I'm not sure this is possible. When you wire batteries, they run in the same electrical "plane", so Kirchhoff's electrical wiring laws apply. Acoustics runs at a different "plane". Magnetism is also an orthogonal plane to electricity. Opposition of electric currents is possible on these two planes.
However, magnetism per se won't work, because it carries no energy capacity - it works when combined with a rotating flywheel which stores potential energy. Same with acoustics - the potential energy is stored in the airwaves.
Magnetism may work if used to emit electromagnetic waves that then oppose an electric flow in another circuit at some distance - I think some devices work that way. In this case the potential energy is stored in aether. This requires an oscillator as well, so in overall acoustics seem simpler.
This is an impressive demonstration how a well-tuned flywheel+magnet opposition creates perpetual motion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As2LtGhuJ8g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As2LtGhuJ8g)
Very simple DYI project. I would speculate the reason it works is that aetheric DC voltage is created in the process (of opposition) which powers the DC motors. Note the channel has many questionable videos, so this may be fake. Anyway, the idea of opposition I'm talking about is demonstrated well. It's hard to demonstrate acoustical opposition.
-----
And here's an inspirational short video with a piezo-element: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ESKZbnf7PyU (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ESKZbnf7PyU)
There's one other thing I'd like to touch related to connection of our everyday electronics to aether, at all times. For example, consider a schematic of any mobile phone here: https://www.alisaler.com/nokia-schematic-diagrams-download/
They have a lot of ground contacts. At the same time, when a mobile phone stands on a wooden (dielectric) table, it still works, no electrical issues happen.
Ground contacts are always in presence, it's all around us at all times. Same for electrical schemes in orbits and space stations. It seems nobody is really asking a question why schemes continue to operate in far space. They operate because excess charge if funneled back into aether. So simple yet noone talks about this...
Here are some basic schemes to generate sinewaves: https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/seven-common-ways-to-generate-a-sine-wave (https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/seven-common-ways-to-generate-a-sine-wave)
E.g. 3.85kHz is very audible, but I think the best way to use planar piezo-elements is to attach them to both ends of some transparent tube of a suitable diameter, about 9cm long. Won't be as obnoxious. The length should be further adjusted by means of a glue or some padding so that soundwave from a piezo-element hits another piezo-element at 90-180 phase degree difference. This should theoretically create an aetheric DC potential on both ends, which can then be recycled back via schottky diode.
If I'm understanding correctly, if the system can be made to work (produce surplus energy) it's the only system that can be safely integrated into micro-electronics. Mechanical and electro-magnetic "perpetual motion" devices are not suitable due to interferences they cause. At the same time, for "large" energy generation, such devices like Liberty engine are already being made. For mobile phones the only way is to first try to make the outlined system work and then scale it down.
Quote from: aleks on April 05, 2023, 12:57:18 AM
About demagnetizing magnets:
"With a strong enough magnetic field of opposite polarity, it is therefore possible to demagnetize the magnet whether this comes from another permanent magnet, or a solenoid."
https://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae472.cfm (https://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae472.cfm)
So, OU devices based on drive by permanent magnets and having opposing polarity in the system with vibration will demagnetize eventually, may be in minutes or in years. For anything truly OU, a device without opposing permanent magnetic fields should be constructed, and the best approach is electro-acoustical devices I'm talking here in this thread. Piezo-materials would be the best as they produce and absorb soundwaves naturally, on crystal lattice level.
"For anything truly OU, a device without opposing permanent magnetic fields should be constructed"
A device doesn't have to be perpetually in motion in order to be O.U..
A device does not have to function eternally in order to be O.U..
Quote from: aleks on April 07, 2023, 01:50:15 AM
This is an impressive demonstration how a well-tuned flywheel+magnet opposition creates perpetual motion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As2LtGhuJ8g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As2LtGhuJ8g)
Very simple DYI project. I would speculate the reason it works is that aetheric DC voltage is created in the process (of opposition) which powers the DC motors. Note the channel has many questionable videos, so this may be fake. Anyway, the idea of opposition I'm talking about is demonstrated well. It's hard to demonstrate acoustical opposition.
That device doesn't work.
but thanks for the link to
https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/seven-common-ways-to-generate-a-sine-wave
Quote from: Willy on April 11, 2023, 08:41:27 AM
"For anything truly OU, a device without opposing permanent magnetic fields should be constructed"
A device doesn't have to be perpetually in motion in order to be O.U..
A device does not have to function eternally in order to be O.U..
Don't get me wrong. If a magnet demagnetizes swiftly, it will be a part that has to be replaced. In a bigger scheme of things, this will require energy. So, I'm personally wary of any claimed OU devices based on permanent magnets.
For sure.
The magnets would under those conditions, would simply be a
novel kind of fuel.
Two neodymium magnets can be clamped together in opposition to
one another for a decade and yet experience very little demagnetization.
Quote from: aleks on April 07, 2023, 01:50:15 AM
........ Note the channel has many questionable videos, .......
Wouldn't want this to forum to fall into the same state of affairs....
...
Quote from: Willy on April 11, 2023, 10:03:10 AM
Wouldn't want this to forum to fall into the same state of affairs....
Well, you are taking it too hard. First of all, your statement "this does not work" is unsubstantiated - because in the video it does seem to work, at least for some time. You haven't demonstrated an analogous device which you can't make to work. Secondly, I'm trying to rely an idea of "opposition" that IMO permeates ALL "perpetual motion" devices. The reason why opposition may work is that it creates a "clash": while on one hand a piezo-element or voice coil moves under controlled EMF, at the same time it moves in an opposite direction under acoustical pressure, which also creates EMF, but an opposing one. A kind of "stoppage" happens, and on "atomic" level (I'm hypothesizing) such "stoppage" leads to creation of electric potential of yet unknown nature.
Quote from: aleks on April 11, 2023, 12:44:33 PM
Well, you are taking it too hard. First of all, your statement "this does not work" is unsubstantiated - because in the video it does seem to work, at least for some time. You haven't demonstrated an analogous device which you can't make to work. Secondly, I'm trying to rely an idea of "opposition" that IMO permeates ALL "perpetual motion" devices. The reason why opposition may work is that it creates a "clash": while on one hand a piezo-element or voice coil moves under controlled EMF, at the same time it moves in an opposite direction under acoustical pressure, which also creates EMF, but an opposing one. A kind of "stoppage" happens, and on "atomic" level (I'm hypothesizing) such "stoppage" leads to creation of electric potential of yet unknown nature.
IT DOES NOT WORK.
It does not work any more than that monkeys might fly out of my but.
That "it does seem to work " is just a pointless and unintentionally silly statement by you.
Obviously, its SEEMING to work was the whole point as to why someone posted the video on you tube in the first place.
Meanwhile compressed air directed at the magnets causes them to spin and that's all folks.
Quote from: Willy on April 11, 2023, 03:38:18 PM
IT DOES NOT WORK.
Meanwhile compressed air directed at the magnets causes them to spin and that's all folks.
What kind of compressed air makes "Liberty engine 2" spin its motors perpetually? You know, if LE2 works, the posted simple device may work, too. Same principle. Beside that, you obviously missed that the author of the video rotates the device in hands. What compressed air?
Don't turn the talk into talk about impossibility to overcome thermodynamic laws. We are on OU forum after all.
On Nikola Tesla. After studying his published works a bit, I've came to the conclusion he NEVER found a free energy source in OU sense. His major claim is that energy always comes from some "medium" meaning Sun, hydro-energy, or underground heat - these were his "free energy" sources compared to fossil fuels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nikola_Tesla_writings
As I've concluded myself, Tesla even did not see his own Tesla Coil fired energy into the depths of the aether. That was the reason Wardenclyffe tower was a flop - it simply wasted energy. Tesla wasn't OU apologist, claims to otherwise are a fantasy. But his electrical engineering works are marvels nevertheless, way ahead of his time.
Quote from: aleks on February 23, 2023, 10:15:00 PM
Grebennikov is not well-known beyond Russia, but this scientist discovered the "secret" of gravity force. In some interviews, however, he admitted stopping research, because of unknown geopolitical complications of gravity devices. In light of my idea outlined above, a wing of an insect may represent the outlined device.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpupEgw2Es (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpupEgw2Es)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Grebennikov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Grebennikov)
Grebennikov revelations belongs to a concept, or action that is purely fictional - like antigravity ,perpetual motion and overunity.
Wesley
Quote from: aleks on April 11, 2023, 10:07:22 PM
What kind of compressed air makes "Liberty engine 2" spin its motors perpetually? You know, if LE2 works, the posted simple device may work, too. Same principle. Beside that, you obviously missed that the author of the video rotates the device in hands. What compressed air?
Don't turn the talk into talk about impossibility to overcome thermodynamic laws. We are on OU forum after all.
This liberty engine ? @
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bnwQzsp14A
There is nothing shown in the video that would make it self run.
How could it be faked ?
There are many ways.
Quote from: stivep on April 13, 2023, 02:15:26 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Grebennikov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Grebennikov)
Grebennikov revelations belongs to a concept, or action that is purely fictional - like antigravity ,perpetual motion and overunity.
Wesley
I don't know of any anti gravity devices but this does not mean that such a thing
does not exist.
Wesley..
1. There is not a single thing that you can name, that is not perpetually in motion.
2. Also you know very well that there are over unity devices.
What are you doing on this OU forum? Are you some kind of agents of unrevealed forces? If you do not believe in OU or do not believe in videos, what are you doing on these forums? You contribute nothing except confusion.
Quote from: Willy on April 13, 2023, 10:57:52 PM
How could it be faked ?
There are many ways.
I think you do not have a keen eye and can't relate knowledge of physics to what you are seeing. That's your problem. Educate yourself more, there's plenty of OU information and believable videos on YouTube, you just have to be curious. Electrical perpetual motion machines is a fact. E.g. Bedini or TPU is so old school today.
Aleks quote
"I think you do not have a keen eye and can't relate knowledge of physics to what you are seeing. That's your problem. Educate yourself more, there's plenty of OU information and believable videos on YouTube, you just have to be curious. Electrical perpetual motion machines is a fact. E.g. Bedini or TPU is so old school today. "
End Aleks quote
...
You may of course, think any stupid thing you wish.
I am not here to tell you what you should think or not think.
I know over unity devices exist, because I have seen it for my self, first hand, in real life. But also I understand the principles by which some can function.
I also Know that Out of the many thousands of supposed self running devices presented on the internet nearly ever one is faked. I know this precisely because I have enough physics and engineering knowledge to know this with certainty.
For you, maybe a video is enough to make you believe something is true. There are plenty of internet sites for people who want to believe something is true, even though they have no evidence to support that belief.
Before you begin speaking of evidence you posses, you should first learn what that word means.
If you are not here to learn, you don't belong here.
Quote from: Willy on April 14, 2023, 12:04:36 AM
If you are not here to learn, you don't belong here.
You've missed threads. This thread is about my own OU proposition, and I'm providing reasoning behind my idea, and making relations to other devices in the field. The problem, there's no generally-accepted theory of OU, and I'm providing one based on my idea. You have no theory and you are just dismissing working devices based on absence of such theory. "Clash" or "stoppage" or "squeeze" of electric currents is a very simple idea, and once you get it (to do so you'll have to admit existence of discrete aether, with particle sizes on the order of 10^-25 meters), you start seeing the physics of devices presented on YouTube. There are many fakes, especially very popular ones, but also there are real devices, usually quite niche videos.
Good. Its good to stand up for one self. Just remember that this isn't about any of us
pretending to be better than anyone else or deserving more than others.
Over Unity .com is an an open source community and the only way this works is when
we all do our best to respect each other.
After a bit of thinking and "mind experiments" I've came to the conclusion that during the outlined "squeeze" the energy comes from collapsing free electrons. The amount of energy released should be in tune with E=mc^2 and the mass of electron. Why they are collapsing? This requires "new physics" to explain. In my understanding, an electron is a spherical electromagnetic wave akin to yellowish-orange ball lightning (if anyone saw it); Tesla coils sometime produce transient ball lightnings which demonstrates mechanics of sphere formation. The reason for electron collapse is loss of symmetry due to compression arising from opposition of electric currents/fields.
That's mechanics. But more importantly is that aether has infinite energy on cosmic scale. It's an open question IMO where "free electrons" come from. It's very likely they are constantly formed and collapse "for free". If not for this, electronics in deep space missions would fail pretty quickly. Also note friction processes that produce "static charge" - but which never goes over some amount: formation of electrons stops at some point.
So, in OU we are taking a natural process of electron collapse under control. But the supply is limitless.
Quote from: Willy on April 14, 2023, 03:33:38 AM
Over Unity .com is an an open source community and the only way this works is when
we all do our best to respect each other.
Dear Alex and Willy.
Yes you are right Willy, but open source is unlikely appreciating all garbage to be thrown there.
Talking about respect. what kind of respect do you have to this forum, members, guests, and other readers?
Какого Чeрта -эта, вся «
ерунда», «чепуха», «глупости» «
нелепость» здесь имеет место, вам это нужно?
Perpetual motion, overunity OU, ether/eather is a nonsense.It looks like you both manifest not even a basic knowledge in physics typical to an average 12 years old from
Western European high school.
Where did you come from ? :)
_____________________________________________________Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 01:45:12 PM"squeeze" the energy comes from collapsing free electrons. The amount of energy released should be in tune with E=mc^2 and the mass of electron.
// aether has infinite energy on cosmic scale//
So, in OU we are taking a natural process of electron collapse under control. But the supply is limitless.
Please explain:
1. -how you are "squeezing" collapsing free electrons and what for - explain entire process.?
2.- eather infinite energy in cosmic scale?- prove it based on current modern physics
3.- how E=mc^2 and the mass of electron is related to releasing energy (in your case), and how we personally can use this energy ? - explain entire process.Proving the answer to that, will double the
$1000 = 82275.65 Russian Rubles offer from below. making it
$2000 per each of you.
4. Prove me that the nonsense you formulated in the quote from above according to physics works in energy
extraction(conversion) process and we can use it to power our appliances, - and I'll give each one of you two
$1000 = 82,275.65 Russian Rubles or more. :)
That in total makes
$3000= 246,827.42
Russian Rubles per each of you.
If any of the points in all questions and concerns is or becomes invalid than entire offer of mine becomes unavailable to you two.
or maybe all of this nonsense is to collect more counts on comments here in hope to become
Hero member in nonsense.?
Note :
Word invalid = invalid argument
However money is available only under condition that: official physics (-as of today) stand point is in agreement with entire explanation you provide exactly to the points
listed above and text of quoted comment.
Denying any or all of the points to make it in agreement with physics doesn't make you the defender of your claims nor rewarded.
https://web.stanford.edu/~bobonich/terms.concepts/valid.sound.html#:~:text=Invalid%3A%20an%20argument%20that%20is%20not%20valid.%20We,and%20invalidity%20apply%20only%20to%20arguments%2C%20not%20statements (https://web.stanford.edu/~bobonich/terms.concepts/valid.sound.html#:~:text=Invalid%3A%20an%20argument%20that%20is%20not%20valid.%20We,and%20invalidity%20apply%20only%20to%20arguments%2C%20not%20statements).
Wesley
Wesley, you are at it again. Nobody needs your poor money.
First of all, read the post #1 in this thread. Then answer a straight question - what happens in the situation when generating speaker is OPPOSED by a soundwave of the same frequency? It's a simple question, but you won't find an answer with all your "modern physics".
Secondly, answer a question why deep space (cosmic) missions/satellites/probes do not run out of free electrons in a vacuum of space, while electrons are repelling. Why free electrons that run the electronics do not repel and leave the body of a satellite?
Thirdly, why the universe has asymmetry between matter and anti-matter, and how processes related to free electrons are involved in this?
Fourthly, the abundance/infinity of energy of cosmos arises from the answer to second and third questions. There's just no way energy is not infinite given we have a source of free electrons EVERYWHERE.
Quote from: stivep on April 15, 2023, 02:37:35 PM
1. -how you are "squeezing" collapsing free electrons and what for - explain entire process.?
3.- how E=mc^2 and the mass of electron is related to releasing energy (in your case), and how we personally can use this energy ? - explain entire process.
The "squeeze" happens due to opposition of electric currents/fields that mathematically reside in orthogonal planes. Two independent electrical schemes can be considered orthogonal to each other. Also soundwaves, inertial force and electromagnetic energy are orthogonal to electricity in a scheme, they do not interact directly. The interaction point arises when a moving voice coil of a loudspeaker (under controlled EMF) is opposed by a moving diaphragm of the speaker driven by a soundwave from another loudspeaker. This opposition creates "squeeze" causing some percentage of electrons (if they are spherical electromagnetic waves) deform and collapse releasing an electric potential in the process. The reason collapsed electron becomes a potential is because surrounding aether has 0 potential - in common situations a free electron simply collapses and returns the energy into aether not causing any visible effects.
Aether is a discrete medium with stochastic distribution of particles similar to gas. The proof is simple: two independent crossing electromagnetic waves almost do not interact with each other; from the physical modeling standpoint this requires that electromagnetic energy is passed via stochastically-placed particles like in acoustic field modeling. The difference is in mechanics: while in acoustic fields the soundwaves can be continuous (inverse square law), in aether the waves are "packeted" (inverse cubic law).
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
Why free electrons that run the electronics do not repel and leave the body of a satellite?
Maybe because the charge of the conductor as a whole is neutral.
Free electrons that are found in metals simply leave some atoms of the lattice, giving them a positive charge ? :)
Quote from: kolbacict on April 16, 2023, 02:41:10 AM
Maybe because the charge of the conductor as a whole is neutral.
Free electrons that are found in metals simply leave some atoms of the lattice, giving them a positive charge ? :)
Yes, I've expected such reply. But free electrons are not bound to atoms, so substance charge may be neutral and at the same time conductive. Then if you insist that free electrons contribute to charge it means ALL conductive substances always have some charge due to free electrons, which is false.
Some may argue that free electrons produce some kind of "ground state charge" in matter, which conserves (I doubt such law exists in physics). The problem with such "conservation" is that it requires electrons to attract and conserve some kind of "charge field", and not repel, which I think is a false idea.
A fact worth noting related to "appearance of free electrons" is that powerful lightning strikes grow electric channels from both sides - clouds and ground. In my opinion, free electrons appear when conductivity is required (electrical potential difference exists), it's just how nature works: a two-way "path finding" algorithm of sorts that involves appearance of free electrons along the path. They are like bumps in a swamp to make a way.
Then consider lightning strikes between planetary bodies reported by some scientists. Are there "free electrons" available in the vacuum of space?
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
read the post #1
In entire set of your comments I was specifically pointing at one particular one.
You are expected to respond to questions with answers and not with new set of questions .
You didn't answer any question and didn't explain anything at all, and your response Alex,
looks like a nonsense, lack of knowledge,-
Absurd .
Извините, но это не Россия -Я в Соединенных Штатах Америки. Wesley
Quote from: aleks on April 16, 2023, 05:15:29 AM
Yes, I've expected such reply. But free electrons are not bound to atoms, so substance charge may be neutral and at the same time conductive.
Yes,free electrons doesn't bonded with atoms,as long as they are free. But they can are captured by other atoms. And that virtual particles appear and disappear from a vacuum, even official science does not object to this. seems me.
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
Wesley, you are at it again. Nobody needs your poor money.
It need to me. But nobody doesn't give me. :D
Quote from: stivep on April 16, 2023, 06:13:51 AM
- the wording used looks like - Absurd .
That's your problems, I'm not here to solve your problems. I'm mostly sharing my findings with those who are interested. But you, my unfriendly american participant, is mostly obsessed with discussing personalities, but not ideas. Don't forget to choose your pronoun wisely.
Quote from: kolbacict on April 16, 2023, 06:16:34 AM
Yes,free electrons doesn't bonded with atoms,as long as they are free. But they can are captured by other atoms. And that virtual particles appear and disappear from a vacuum, even official science does not object to this. seems me.It need to me. But nobody doesn't give me. :D
The problem with electron-positron pairs theory is that universe has matter/anti-matter asymmetry, I've pointed that out. Charged particles and charge is a different category. Charging an atom needs energy, atoms can't simply bind to free electrons. Hence, in deep space a satellite would lose all free electrons and electronics would stop working, if one follows a widespread idea of electron-positron pair symmetry, and idea that "energy cannot be created nor destroyed". There's contradiction between theoretic view that electron-positron pairs do appear and the fact that there's more matter than anti-matter in the universe.
https://home.cern/science/physics/matter-antimatter-asymmetry-problem
Quote from: aleks on April 13, 2023, 11:33:04 PM
What are you doing on this OU forum? Are you some kind of agents //?
You contribute nothing except confusion.
"Alex"- is just a name of different people. "Overunity"- is just the name of this forum.
No word:"Alex" nor (coincidental) name of this forum is perceived as nonsensical phenomena - "overunity." by these skilled in art.
-and yes You Alex are contributing nothing except confusion. Are you some kind of agents //?
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:39:41 PM
soundwaves, inertial force and electromagnetic energy are orthogonal to electricity
Total nonsense.-
Absurd link please.
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:39:41 PM
The interaction point arises when a moving voice coil of a loudspeaker (under controlled EMF) is opposed by a moving diaphragm of the speaker driven by a soundwave from another loudspeaker. This opposition creates "squeeze" causing some percentage of electrons (if they are spherical electromagnetic waves)
Total nonsense.-
Absurd link please.Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:39:41 PM
The reason collapsed electron becomes a potential is because surrounding aether has 0 potential - in common situations a free electron simply collapses and returns the energy into aether not causing any visible effects.
Total nonsense.-
Absurd link please.Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:39:41 PM
Aether is a discrete medium with stochastic distribution of particles similar to gas. The proof is simple: two independent crossing electromagnetic waves almost do not interact with each other; from the physical modeling standpoint this requires that electromagnetic energy is passed via stochastically-placed particles like in acoustic field modeling. The difference is in mechanics: while in acoustic fields the soundwaves can be continuous (inverse square law), in aether the waves are "packeted" (inverse cubic law).
Total nonsense.-
Absurd link please.
Wesley's explanation:
-There is no Aether,,
-no stochastic distribution of particles in this case.
-electromagnetic wave has nothing to do with sound wave. Mentioned quantum physics phenomena has nothing to do with classical one.
- there is no "packeted" wave, no aether , and no (inverse cubic law) in it.
- no collapsed electron, no potential 0.
Highly likely there is a targeted disinformation taking place here for 6 pages now,
by some likely Russian individual/s not willing to explain, nor support his statements with any
suitable links.
I see here conflict in communication where the response of an individual is: ignorance:Quote from: aleks on April 16, 2023, 08:45:09 AM
That's your problems, I'm not here to solve your problems.
I would kindly ask you Dear alex to respond to the questions and concerns with suitable links and I would be delighted to continue this conversation.
____________________________________________________
"multiple identity " in association with nicknames
is yet next step related to historical data. :)
Wesley
Wesley, do not be a child. What kind of peer-reviewed links are you expecting in the overunity field? Just go away, there's no overunity in official nobel-prize level physics, nor in classical physics.
Also, it is you who is offering a "prize" to prove a non-sensical stuff. You have some undisclosed interests behind you, akin to interests of transnational oil and energy companies. As for me, I'm not from Gazprom for sure.
Quote from: aleks on April 16, 2023, 10:19:16 PM
//, there's no overunity in official nobel-prize level physics, nor in classical physics.//
Also, it is you who is offering a "prize" to prove a non-sensical stuff.
Quote from: aleks on April 16, 2023, 10:19:16 PM
What // you expecting in the overunity field?
There is no overunity field - Overunity is just name you trashing on purpose with nonsense?
Dear Alex. enough is enough.
6 pages of mostly
Absurd written by you .
No literature, no properties specified.
You writing pure fiction not even supported by you.
-
So why you composing it?-
Why you trashing this forum on purpose with nonsense.It is just coincidentally unfortunate, that most if not all of Trolls were Russian.
- removed from this forum for trashing this forum .
I voted for many of these removals in the past.
It takes takes time but ends the same.
multiple identity doesn't help.Dear Alex We are here to help each other, not to spreed lies and you by yourself wrote that you knowingly
writing nonsense here.
(quoted)Brainwash of Russian propaganda is not welcomed here.
I wish you the best.
Wesley
Wesley, please give a straight answer - what are you doing on *overunity* forum while not believing in overunity? This is not a usual electrical engineering forum. You are either just wasting your time or working on purpose voting for flagging of undesired information and removals.
incomplete quote
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
what happens in the situation when generating speaker is OPPOSED by a soundwave of the same frequency?
why deep space (cosmic) missions/satellites/probes do not run out of free electrons in a vacuum of space, while electrons are repelling. Why free electrons that run the electronics do not repel and leave the body of a satellite?
Question 1-Aleks, why don't you give us a detailed explanation and diagrams ?
Question 2 -Aleks, Why do you suppose that the electrons should "run out" in a vacuum any more so than they "run out" on earth ?
Aleks, I have to agree with Wesley in that it is apparent, that most of your statements
here are nonsense.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 08:21:28 AM
incomplete quote
Question 1-Aleks, why don't you give us a detailed explanation and diagrams ?
Question 2 -Aleks, Why do you suppose that the electrons should "run out" in a vacuum any more so than they "run out" on earth ?
I'm presenting a "mind experiment in vacuum". It's much harder to visualize running out electrons on earth, because body of earth is massive, and the electrons may remain under gravity force. But in vacuum there's no external mass, no source of electrons, and plenty of surrounding uncharged space to run out under mutual repelling force. Note that a satellite usually gets its power via solar panels, and the electromagnetic energy is not a source of electrons, at least in common understanding. Electromagnetic energy does cause charge to accumulate in atoms, but this requires nearby free electrons.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 08:21:28 AM
Aleks, I have to agree with Wesley in that it is apparent, that most of your statements
here are nonsense.
What exact element contributes to your feeling of nonsense? Speaking in general does not contribute anything except confusion. Tell me what causes your misunderstanding, I'll elaborate.
Quote from: aleks on April 17, 2023, 08:36:43 AM
I'm presenting a "mind experiment in vacuum". It's much harder to visualize running out electrons on earth, because body of earth is massive, and the electrons may remain under gravity force. But in vacuum there's no external mass, no source of electrons, and plenty of surrounding uncharged space to run out under mutual repelling force. Note that a satellite usually gets its power via solar panels, and the electromagnetic energy is not a source of electrons, at least in common understanding. Electromagnetic energy does cause charge to accumulate in atoms, but this requires nearby free electrons.
I'm fine with people doing mind experiments.
" the electrons may remain under gravity force"
It is true that under vacuum, events such as phase change, i.e. ice sublimating to vapor
or freeze drying occurs.
Are you suggesting that we should therefore, expect the bodies of space craft to evaporate
while under vacuum as well ?
"and the electromagnetic energy is not a source of electrons, at least in common understanding"
Research photo electric effect . This is what Einstein received the Nobel prize for (not
the theory of relativity).
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 08:54:47 AM
Are you suggesting that we should therefore, expect the bodies of space craft to evaporate
while under vacuum as well ?
Why are you thinking this? Atoms are fine, they attract to each other and retain form in vacuum. I'm talking ONLY about free electrons that are required for electricity to work.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 08:54:47 AM
Research photo electric effect . This is what Einstein received the Nobel prize for (not
the theory of relativity).
"The emission of electrons from a metal plate caused by light quanta – photons." Electrons are assumed to be pre-existent when photon hits a metal plate. It's absolutely not the transformation of EM energy into photons. Things turn even funnier if you consider photo-electric effect.
Quote from: aleks on April 17, 2023, 08:39:26 AM
What exact element contributes to your feeling of nonsense? Speaking in general does not contribute anything except confusion. Tell me what causes your misunderstanding, I'll elaborate.
Research photo electric effect . This is what Einstein received the Nobel prize for (not
the theory of relativity).
Science, for the very most part has very specific definitions for the words used in it.
Even so I often find that, when ever I have investigated those definitions to a deep
enough level, even they become pretty well nonsensical. In fact many of the great minds
of science have had essentially the same thing to say about this (which is some what comforting).
It remains however that Newton's observations as to why a baseball in flight behaves as
it does are very correct, within a specified context and/or parameters.
The burden lies upon you, to communicate within the concise language of the sciences and not
rather instead, to create new meanings or vocabularies for others to learn.
The whole problem is that for energy to run from one battery terminal to the other, free electrons are required in a conductor, with conductor having a neutral charge overall. When there are free electrons, everything is fine with theory: free electrons form electric field body together with electrons on terminals of a battery, a transfer of energy happens. But what if there are no free electrons, how battery's terminals can form a path?
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 09:22:44 AM
The burden lies upon you, to communicate within the concise language of the sciences and not
rather instead, to create new meanings or vocabularies for others to learn.
Well, I'm trying. But my words won't do much if you live under the spell of "no overunity in this reality". New concepts and examples are required.
Aleks quote
"I'm talking ONLY about free electrons that are required for electricity to work."
Aleks quote end
Free electrons are not the electrons flowing in electrical circuits. True that, electrons
in a circuit have been freed from their bonds to an atom sort of. But only briefly. They
become bonded to a next atom soon there after. Not what is mostly meant by the term
free electron.
I hear you.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 09:35:19 AM
Free electrons are not the electrons flowing in electrical circuits. True that, electrons
in a circuit have been freed from their bonds to an atom sort of. But only briefly. They
become bonded to a next atom soon there after. Not what is mostly meant by the term
free electron.
Well, there we have a problem. You are referring to valence electrons. And your "nonsense" claim may be true in this respect. Such "free electrons" do not leave their bonds. But consider then a cathode ray tube which emits electrons. What is the source of electrons if "free electrons" are bonded to metal lattice? Thermionic emission does not assume only transient unbonding of electrons. I think there many be more than one theoretical model of electrical current to consider. So, at least I now understand the source of confusion. My example wasn't good. Another example: will a cathode ray stop when it emits electrons on a satellite? Or even better: will a device used in double-slit experiment stop after some time when it runs out of unbonded electrons on a satellite?
My mind was running to the same examples.
Electrostatic charges build up upon the screen of a television cathode ray tube
(picture tube). Televisions have also, a high voltage transformer as part of that circuitry.
Do electrostatic charges also build up around an incandescent light bulb ? I have never
check this out.
Things start to get really interesting when we consider that the energy of an electrical circuit
is primarily carried in the field surrounding the wires, not in the motion of the electrons which
are bound to the wires. The wires are perhaps more like a kind of conduit which directs the fields.
Even more striking is the consideration that the wires are their selves a form of or complex
patterns of energy which we call physical matter.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 10:34:17 AM
Electrostatic charges build up upon the screen of a television cathode ray tube
(picture tube). Televisions have also, a high voltage transformer as part of that circuitry.
CRT is not a perfect example to my reasoning. An electron source of an electron microscope is a better example of free/unbonded electrons I've meant. Electron microscope powered by a solar panel can't run out of unbonded electrons, isn't it? Will it run out of electrons, on a satellite, if electrons are beamed into outer space?
Here's a video of high-voltage arcing in vacuum. There's no conductor nor "valence electrons" to consider. Yet the bridge (consisting of electrons, of course) does build up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTPL-pm92eo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTPL-pm92eo) Or you can give your own explanation, it will be interesting to hear.
Note that how it's two-way.
I'll add that physics invented "holes" to describe such behavior. It's like abstract holes on positively charged end strive to create a conductivity path. While in reality, as can be seen, there are electron bridges form at both ends.
If I may rephrase the question...
If we beamed electrons from a satellite which is within the vacuum of deep space,
could we reach a point at which the balance between the positive charge potential present
within the satellite exceeds the energy available to us (on board the satellite) required to
expel / beam more electrons from the satellite ?
addendum
Gota go, for now.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 12:03:58 PM
If we beamed electrons from a satellite which is within the vacuum of deep space,
could we reach a point at which the balance between the positive charge potential present
within the satellite exceeds the energy available to us (on board the satellite) required to
expel / beam more electrons from the satellite ?
Yes, your rephrasing is correct, but it's a classical reasoning, and assumes that electron beam device borrows electrons from surrounding surfaces. Note that you can't measure electrostatic potential of a satellite as this requires a reference point. The ultimate question is whether or not electrons appear "out of nothing".
Our discussion is of course in the realm of theory. As is also Einstein relativity, electron theory, atomic theory and so on.
Not "out of nothing" but perhaps out of "no thing". If a "thing" is taken to be an object which
has mass.
An electron can absorb a photon or it can emit a photon and there by its energy state is changed.
Electrons are considered as "fundamental" "particles", by are they ? Who knows ?
Among the (if not species of photons), then perhaps (variations of photons) is that variety of
photon which is termed the virtual photon.
On way to phrase this next statement would be to say that, conventional physics holds that the virtual photon can have an effect upon an interaction, before its actual arrival, at the position of that interaction.
Quote from: Willy on April 17, 2023, 02:55:55 PM
An electron can absorb a photon or it can emit a photon and there by its energy state is changed.
on an interaction, before its actual arrival, at the position of that interaction.
Well, electron can emit photons e.g. when it loses kinetic energy (Bremsstrahlung), that's not what I mean. By common understanding all electrons are "fixed" particles created in Big Bang. And to me this is problematic overall as some examples indicate that unbonded electrons are too ubiquitous to not to consider appearance of electrons "out of nothing". And I do not mean transient, quantum-theoretic, electron-positron pairs, I'm talking about real electrons. In my reasoning I'm assuming that unbonded electrons appear and disappear constantly, and this is in tune with "conservation of energy", statistically speaking. But the catch is: the electron can collapse under controlled conditions, and that's the source of free energy.
Tesla Coil discharges is an important demonstration to the model/theory I'm proposing. Discharges constitute movement of energy - but where does it move to? ANYWHERE, it does not require an opposite potential, do not underestimate that fact. It means 0 potential is everywhere, which may be frequency-dependent. If one views electron as a spherical and collapsable EM wave, its frequency is in the order of 10^20 Hz, it may be extremely permeable, and returns to aether without any effects. By the way, this frequency range corresponds to Xrays and ionizing radiation: Xray beam dynamics is worth studying, to see if there are any unexpected "losses" associated with it exist.
In the model I'm offering, the ubiquitous "background ionizing radiation" that surrounds us, measured in sievert, may also be in part caused by appearing and collapsing unbonded electrons. However, this isn't in tune with "conservation of energy". But if we'll get to the level when "free energy devices" are commonplace, nobody will care about "conservation of energy" at all, the way Big Bang theorists do not care where the initial impulse energy originates from.
I like it.
"If we beamed electrons from a satellite which is within the vacuum of deep space,
could we reach a point at which the balance between the positive charge potential present
within the satellite exceeds the energy available to us (on board the satellite) required to
expel / beam more electrons from the satellite ? "
1. I would say that as electrons exit the system the energy needed in order to beam more
electrons from the satellite increases (per each electron expelled).
2. OK, we could perhaps resupply the satellite with energy via solar cells, but this does not supply us with additional electrons to expel.
3. If our wires become in effect, electrically insulating, by virtue of a lack of electrons which
can be mobilized as electric current then I say the beaming of electrons out of the system
ends.
Do I consider that it might be possible for electrons to pop into existence from an ether or
an aether or from the quantum fields or some other ? I don't know, but I assume that if the right conditions exist, the answer would be yes. The electrons that are here, came from some kind of some where and some kind of some thing, else they always existed.
It is a definite that a greater amount of energy can be obtained,
by the common electrolysis of water
when the energy from atmospheric buoyancy of the hydrogen so produced,
is compared to the electrical energy input into the electrolysis initially.
Where does that energy come from ?
Sory if off topic.
Thanks for your comment, Willy, you've got my reasoning about electrons right.
Here's an interesting video about electron beam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuL8a3QZSnk
Like in Tesla coils it does not require a circuit to beam energy. Touching it with fingers without problems. Where does energy go?
Quote from: Willy on April 18, 2023, 06:47:04 AM
We are a long way from the topic of Acoustical feedback energy system. Sorry.
No, this is completely on-topic. I'm trying to make an explanation why speaker-soundwave opposition may yield free energy.
Quote from: Willy on April 18, 2023, 06:47:04 AM
It is a definite that a greater amount of energy can be obtained, by the common electrolysis of water
Where does that energy come from ?
I can't say for sure, but since electrolysis involves electric current in a highly-turbulent medium (water), the energy may come from collapsing electrons as well, the way I'm trying to explain.
Quote from: aleks on April 18, 2023, 01:16:04 PM
I can't say for sure, but since electrolysis involves electric current in a highly-turbulent medium (water), the energy may come from collapsing electrons as well, the way I'm trying to explain.
There is no over unity in the conventional electrolysis.
The joules of energy as electric input are equal to the joules of heat energy
produced in the electrolyte by ohmic resistance plus the heat of the combustion
of the hydrogen and oxygen,
Except there may be some recombination of hydrogen and oxygen within the
electrolyte solution itself.
The over unity occurs when the electrolysis system is combined with the buoyancy
system.
Hydrogen from the electrolysis is allowed to rise in the atmosphere instead of
burning it.
When a weight object is lifted by the hydrogen's rise in atmosphere, the kinetic
energy potential present in that lifted object at height, can be very very much so greater
than any energy expended in that hydrogen production itself.
Very very very large potential energy can be thusly obtained.
Quote from: Willy on April 18, 2023, 01:29:41 PM
There is no over unity in the conventional electrolysis.
Hydrogen from the electrolysis is allowed to rise in the atmosphere instead of
burning it.
Are you talking about a model? I do not understand how raising hydrogen increases energy of the outcome: free-raising hydrogen actually loses potential energy, because pushing it back down will require energy. On another note, I did read/hear somewhere that some inventors get a lot more hydrogen than anticipated, hence collapsing electrons must be involved in the process. I can visualize a turbulence causing local electric current vortices and collisions of electron fields.
Sorry I was still editing this on line when you posted.
There is no over unity in the conventional electrolysis.
The joules of energy as electric input are equal to the joules of heat energy
produced in the electrolyte by ohmic resistance plus the heat of the combustion
of the hydrogen and oxygen,
Except there may be some recombination of hydrogen and oxygen within the
electrolyte solution itself.
The over unity occurs when the electrolysis system is combined with the buoyancy
system.
Hydrogen from the electrolysis is allowed to rise in the atmosphere instead of
burning it.
When a weight object is lifted by the hydrogen's rise in atmosphere, the kinetic
energy potential present in that lifted object at height, can be very very much so greater
than any energy expended in that hydrogen production itself.
Very very very large potential energy can be thusly obtained.
The hydrogen can be burned at altitude and the water will fall, but this is not necessary
in order for the output to be greater than the input.
Quote from: Willy on April 18, 2023, 01:58:33 PM
When a weight object is lifted by the hydrogen's rise in atmosphere, the kinetic
energy potential present in that lifted object at height, can be very very much so greater
than any energy expended in that hydrogen production itself.
Some experimenters use buoyancy of water to extract energy via raising air, and the claims of OU were made. So, your model may be correct, but probably not too practical - you'll also need to raise 1 atom of oxygen per 2 atoms of hydrogen, and thats not easy to do as oxygen is comparably heavy. The gravity force is a tricky one - consider an elastic object falling under gravity. It will fall on the ground, make several bounces, and come to standstill. Where does its energy go? On a planet without atmosphere one can say it partially converted into compression of the object, but another part of energy gained from falling from a high altitude seems to be lost? Then space satellites use gravity maneuvers, they basically get free energy in a bigger scheme of things.
Next moves in the game book.
If it cannot be plausibly denied, don't acknowledge it. Cast some degree of doubt instead
and then down play any significance it has. Next, dismiss it and divert attention to something
similar. Finally create a conflict.
Quote from: Willy on April 18, 2023, 09:40:23 PM
Next moves in the game book.
If it cannot be plausibly denied, don't acknowledge it. Cast some degree of doubt instead
and then down play any significance it has. Next, dismiss it and divert attention to something
similar. Finally create a conflict.
That's the usual tactic when big money are involved. "Conservation of energy" paradigm capitalizes trillions of dollars.
Shall we get back onto your topic ?
Quote from: Willy on April 18, 2023, 09:58:23 PM
Shall we get back onto your topic ?
At the moment I have nothing more to write. I've explained what happens to myself mainly, and shared insights here. If you have any objections to collapsing electrons whose EM energy potential strives to return to aether (with 0 potential revealed by Tesla coil demonstrations), and which (EM energy) becomes readily accessible in a circuit, you can write them.
I'll add that "collapsing electrons" per se, even if they only cause sporadic ionizing radiation, may be completely in tune with "conservation of energy" on cosmic scales. The problem for "the powers that be" is that electrons are too ubiquitous, and are (at least) constantly supplied by the ions from the Sun and cosmic radiation. So, if such "free energy" can be put to good use, it will obsolete all less economically efficient ways to get electrical energy.
So, the obvious "attack vector" of TPTB that I can see is "ionizing radiation" of electrical free energy devices. Get your Sievert and Geiger meters ready to fight disinformation campaigns. They do not care about physics, and what is possible or not, they care about money and ways to put competitors down.
I'm taking some time to go over my insights again (to recheck my own understanding mainly). This isn't directed to Wesley as they have some other agenda it seems.
1. soundwaves, inertial force and electromagnetic energy are orthogonal to electricity.
a) Soundwaves can pass through an operating electrical circuit without causing any interference. b) Electrical circuits operate without issues on moving bodies, and are not subject to interference from kinetic impacts or hits. c) Intensive solar radiation (electromagnetic energy) does not interfere (except thermally) with high-voltage transmission lines even if it's believed that electricity runs over surface of a conductor. All 3 points proven.
2. Aether is a discrete medium with stochastic distribution of particles similar to gas.
If we consider that ALL physical processes happen in the same space-time continuum, and take two coinciding electromagnetic waves into consideration - how can we differentiate one from the other at location x,y,z,t? The field component is undefined UNLESS the field is stochastic and a measurement yields field component probabilistically between wave 1 and 2. Case proven.
3. Surrounding aether has 0 potential.
Tesla coil is basically a high-voltage capacitor. Capacitor carries electrical charge. Tesla coil in vacuum discharges (produces corona) over 360 degree sphere hence surrounding potential relative to capacitor is 0 everywhere, and there is no requirement of presence of some "grounding terminal" for the discharge to happen. Case proven.
4. The interaction point (between soundwave energy and electrical current) arises when a moving voice coil of a loudspeaker (under controlled EMF) is opposed by a moving diaphragm/cone driven by a soundwave from another loudspeaker.
There's nothing to say, it should be obvious. I admit that the "collapsing electrons" is a hypothesis, but it is the only possible way to describe what happens in too many electrical OU devices. You may discard this hypothesis or work on it, I do not have problems with that.
Quote from: aleks on April 16, 2023, 10:19:16 PM
Wesley, do not be a child. What kind of peer-reviewed links are you expecting in the overunity field? Just go away, there's no overunity //
Quote from: aleks on April 17, 2023, 08:12:50 AM
Wesley, // what are you doing on *overunity* forum while not believing in overunity? This is not a usual electrical engineering forum.
Answer:We are helping each other and you are refusing defend but admitting that you writing -
Absurd. Name of this forum "overunity"- is only the name, like your nick name is Alex .
We are based not on belief but on science, and reality. We are exchanging knowledge here while helping each other.
Quote from: aleks on April 20, 2023, 01:56:44 PM
2. Aether is a discrete medium with stochastic distribution of particles similar to gas.
3. Surrounding aether has 0 potential.
You continuing to flood this forum with the same
nonsense-
Absurd that was pointed to you
here:
https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576605/#msg576605 (https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576605/#msg576605)
week ago.
You refused to provide any reference or basis to that
nonsense-
Absurd here:
https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576609/#msg576609 (https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576609/#msg576609)
-and you were ask to cooperate here:
https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576620/#msg576620 (https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576620/#msg576620)
It is now 9 pages of mostly
intentional disinformation Consider yourself notified for the third time.
Thank you for your attention .
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 20, 2023, 09:31:30 PM
You refused to provide any reference or basis to that nonsense
Now you can't read? Please read my post just above your post, and provide *thoughtful* counter-arguments. Overunity is not based on accepted science, it's impossible per existing theories, don't fool anyone here.
aleks
Here the forum tries to transition towards experiments or suggestions towards experiments .
The open source community has plenty of skills... and incredible resources .
Do you have an experiment to share ?
Towards your theory ?
Respectfully
Chet K
Quote from: ramset on April 21, 2023, 09:51:56 AM
aleks
Do you have an experiment to share ?
Oh, read post #1 or https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066 I'm not taking all this from my imagination only. From what I understood, people don't know what happens when a loudspeaker is hit with an equally-powerful, same-frequency, but opposing soundwave of some phase. It's just not studied at all, probably even looks like a non-sensical system for many. And that was the opportunity: simple experiment, unusual results.
Search for "opposing loudspeakers" on YouTube or Google and you'll get almost nothing.
Note: I have like 3-10 minutes per day to write something. I'm not in my office. Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:14:17 AM
Oh, read post #1 or https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066 (https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066)
I was advised that: Link posted by you is infected with quite weird tracking cookies. My IT points at Russian FSB .( former KGB called GRU)
Dear aleks -You are not conducting mentioned experiment, but talking nonsense/Absurd for 9 pages now.Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:14:17 AM
Reedited by Wesley from "aleks language" into physics in English language:
Two loudspeakers, for example : 4 meters apart and facing each other, play identical sounds of the same frequency
You stand (or just taking measurement) halfway between them,- ( the same-frequency, and phase. )
1.
sound waves are pressure waves. have nothing to do with electromagnetic wave.
2.because of the symmetry, an air-element at the midpoint (P) does not move. This gives a displacement-node at P.
P is a pressure-antinode because of the movement of the air around P. The air around P moves like this:
→P← during a compression (increasing pressure at P)
←P→ during an expansion (reducing pressure at P)
but the air at P remains stationary.
Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:14:17 AM
Search for "opposing loudspeakers" on YouTube or Google and you'll get almost nothing.
There is plenty of material available on the internet- tons of it.This explanation is supported by:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/standing-waves-between-two-speakers-in-phase.1004763/ (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/standing-waves-between-two-speakers-in-phase.1004763/)
ConclusionCase of Destructive Interference:As you see from the simulation below
(lower picture) at the right wavelength the sound wave cancels and the person
at
point P( shown in upper picture) will hear no sound at all( in ideal situation). please look at dark red
and dark blue
wave shape.
Imagine that you have two speakers one on the right and one on the left of the simulation below:Imagine that exactly in the middle of the horizontal line - the two waves destructively interfere between themselves
I'm writing more about constructive and destructive interference in the comment below.
Opinion expressed is my ownWesley
Please read my comment from above.
To better understand constructive and destructive interference here is easy explanation:
Constructive interference happens when two waves overlap in such a way that they combine to create a larger wave.
Destructive interference happens when two waves overlap in such a way that they cancel each other out.
Wave interference also depends on the relative phase of the two waves, as this video shows through the examples of path length differences and pi shifts.
The superposition of the two waves results in constructive interference, which means that the sound heard is loud.
If, on the other hand, destructive interference results in silence.
look at the video here:
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/light-waves/interference-of-light-waves/v/constructive-and-destructive-interference (https://www.khanacademy.org/science/physics/light-waves/interference-of-light-waves/v/constructive-and-destructive-interference)
Wesley
Oh, stevie/Weslie, you are at it again, following your agenda of hedging someone's interests in energy. Offering a prize for OU proof yet not accepting any proof outside science which denies OU, making fools of everyone in the process.
I'm not talking about "midpoint" interference of soundwaves, that's totally not interesting and is only an acoustical mode, non-destructive to electrons. I'm talking about EMF interference caused at VOICE COILs. That's much more interesting.
As for soundwaves vs electromagnetic waves, they are of course different. But I'm offering a way to look at other OU devices as well, using the reasoning proposed by me. EM waves also carry potential energy and thus can be used to cause a similar interference at some "interaction point". EM waves at their base are orthogonal to electricity, and to cause interference you'll have to use an "open ends" antenna or inductor. But the source of OU will be the same - opposing EMFs. OU systems with motor-alternator (like Liberty Engine 2) can be also described in the terms of opposing EMFs, but it's trickier to do. Acoustical waves are the best way to demonstrate what kind of process physics is lacking understanding of.
..
On 0 potential of aether again. Here's a claim that Tesla coil charges a DC capacitor wirelessly. To most physicists that may be impossible, but if you add "0 potential of aether" into reasoning, it's as easy as day and night. The DC capacitor charges simply because Tesla coil creates a voltage gradient around it, and the gradient is created because discharge goes into aether hindered by air molecules.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiBsVx_S6uY
Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:11:50 PM
I'm not talking about "midpoint" interference of soundwaves,
Yes that is exactly what you pointed at in your comment.
Here is a copy of it:
Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:14:17 AM
// people don't know what happens when a loudspeaker is hit with an equally-powerful, same-frequency, but opposing soundwave of some phase
Search for "opposing loudspeakers" on YouTube or Google and you'll get almost nothing.
I responded to it.
All other nonsense of yours was not the subject of my answer.
Please note that this is
United States of America here and we are educated to respond exactly to the point
when quoting - as I did.
opinion expressed is my own.
I do wish you all the best .Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 22, 2023, 09:23:46 PM
Yes that is exactly what you pointed at in your comment.
So, you've searched Google, found a topic about "midpoint interference" and now claiming I'm telling the same thing? That's a bit foolish.
You are obviously trying to make a cause for a ban. I won't react to your outrageous inductions about politics.
..
Note: I have like 3-10 minutes per day to write something. I'm not in my office.
you don't have to be PhD aleks, to understand that what's below:Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:27:16 PM
You are obviously trying to make a cause for a ban. I won't react to your outrageous inductions about politics.
FACTS ARE NOT POLARIZED,-nor Political but physical (-from physics and philosophy stand point !!!!!!!!!!!!) Few facts for you to understand Aleks:1. -I don't try to cause your ban. Not at all Dear aleks. (causation=the relationship between cause and effect; causality)2. -location like Russia , EU or USA - it is just me pointing at physical factor and it is not negative. positive nor political.
3 .-using wording like: "Terrorist" in regards to Russia is just a physically existing fact officially conformed by EU and Congress of USA
4. -calling you with names : "animal"- dear aleks. is a lovely complement and fact from Darwinist like me (-official science)
5.-From physics standpoint:Trashing this forum with nonsense on purpose is what I'm against - and that is what Trolls do.
It looks like Russia's old nicknames on this forum are reactivated now but often with different people behind .Some old nicknames/accounts shockingly shows conflicting opposite statements than and now.For example:
year 2008:
Quote from: aleks on March 26, 2008, 04:31:09 PM
Well, I do not know how aether // may exist at all.
and it looks like that aleks
from 2008 was absolutely different person:
manifesting at least certain education in our field of interest and you aleks of 2023
do not. ( my opinion) https://overunity.com/4304/some-clue-on-tpu-device-operation/msg85416/#msg85416 (https://overunity.com/4304/some-clue-on-tpu-device-operation/msg85416/#msg85416)
and now here is today's nonsense- Absurd from aleks
year 2023:
Quote from: aleks on April 20, 2023, 01:56:44 PM
2. Aether is a discrete medium with stochastic distribution of particles similar to gas.
3. Surrounding aether has 0 potential.
I'm not against you alex at all:Please understand that all animals including you
aleks deserves to be loved and that can often be confusing to some mammals.
I repeat my quote from here :
https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg576299/#msg576299 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg576299/#msg576299)
Cloxxki:Date Registered: April 30, 2009, 02:07:08 PMQuote from: Cloxxki on April 06, 2023, 08:00:58 PMyou've been hating Russians.
There are some dangerous species and they also need to eat, procreate,and perform biological functions.
I'm in love to all animals including you aleks too.
Knowing that animals can bite too, I have helped few cats and few Russians to get better life
Not all animals have equal chances but all of them deserves better including me and you too. I'm vegetarian.
I definitely can feed quite few Russians where retiree earns ~ $80 per month and average earning in regions is ~ $150 per month-
( in black market value of dollar there )I spend for feeding cats including feral cats much more than that per month.
e.g: $2650 paid for medical of just one feral cat.
-for this money I could feed 33 Russian retirees for 1 month, but I preferred to help 1 more cat as no Russian animal- mammal is better than American cat.-mammal
American cats don't kill Ukrainians and didn't kidnap 16000 of Ukrainian children.
Russian human animals did. link below:To understand me and avoid conflicts please go here: https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg576289/#msg576289 (https://overunity.com/18335/wireless-energy-transfer-experiments-builders-board/msg576289/#msg576289)
Opinion expressed is my own Wesley
After deleting all nonsense I'm responding to the valid concern.Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:24:48 PMHere's a claim that Tesla coil charges a DC capacitor wirelessly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiBsVx_S6uY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiBsVx_S6uY)
You didn't provide link to Tesla statement.
1. Square shape of curve is not
DC as it is not constant. It has AC Leading and Falling edge.
|-
|_|-
|_|-
|_|-
|_|-
|_|-
| https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/waveforms/waveforms.html (https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/waveforms/waveforms.html)
is-a-square-wave-still-considered-dc (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/112223/is-a-square-wave-still-considered-dc#:~:text=So%2C%20in%20the%20first%20sense%2C%20your%20square%20wave,square%20wave%20is%20DC%20since%20it%20is%20non-alternating.)
2. In Tesla Coil from video you see Spark Gap here: https://youtu.be/SiBsVx_S6uY?t=52 (https://youtu.be/SiBsVx_S6uY?t=52) and that is AC.
3. Static electricity is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity)
Electrostatic discharge is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_discharge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_discharge)
Quote from: aleks on April 22, 2023, 09:24:48 PM
The DC capacitor charges simply because Tesla coil creates a voltage gradient around it,
few facts:
4. A charged spherical capacitor kept in air do not loose charge because
air as dielectric is a "bad conductor" and increase in charge results in Corona Discharge.
Is it because the nucleus of air molecule repels the charge in sphere and after a limit the repulsion is less than the attraction by sphere leading to Corona Discharge.
Statement from link below :
QuoteA single sphere is not a capacitor
is not valid for a Tesla Coil top capacitor.- Earth is the second plate of that capacitor.
and likely your own body is closer to serve as a second plate.
why-doesnt-charge-escape-from-capacitor (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/652668/why-doesnt-charge-escape-from-capacitor#:~:text=A%20charged%20spherical%20capacitor%20kept%20in%20air%20do,the%20attraction%20by%20sphere%20leading%20to%20Corona%20Discharge.)
5. why capacitor needs to be shorted when not connected Why terminals of high voltage capacitors must be shorted when they are not in use
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QbDPkkrhNA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QbDPkkrhNA) -I'm partially satisfied with that video.
how capacitor gets charged if not connected to anything at all will be more accurately explained when I have more time.
Wesley
I do not care about weslie anymore, he seems to acts not in his own humanly interests. I'm not a person I was in 2008, I was younger and was lacking knowledge I have now. Stochastic aether is basically a mathematical necessity. Thinking otherwise is living in illusionary physical models.
Here's a schematic of a loudspeaker/transducer to consider. Note the "opposing EMF" and "controlled EMF" I've marked. I've tried to describe that in words, but maybe a schematic will be easier to grasp the idea where and how opposition happens.
aleks
Perhaps have a look at some theory.. put to empirical
testing !
https://overunity.com/3344/lords-of-the-ring-2/msg576946/#new (https://overunity.com/3344/lords-of-the-ring-2/msg576946/#new)
Giantkiller is a longtime open source contributor..
Nothing but gratitude and respect from me ...
Quote from: aleks on April 23, 2023, 09:54:26 PM
I do not care about weslie anymore, he seems to acts not in his own humanly interests.
Dear Alex
human interest: is than divided to , religious, economic, national, personal and so on
interest.Russian, interest caused Russian aggression in Ukraine .Tell me what makes you better animal than me or any (vegetarian) chimpanzee, or pig ?
can you?
_______________________________Quote from: aleks on April 23, 2023, 09:54:26 PM
I'm not a person I was in 2008, I was younger and was lacking knowledge
Aleks in 2008 was often incorrect but who cares he was open - I don't expect anyone to be PhD. For me Aleks in 2008 had all values you are not manifesting now. -
sparkling, intelligent, enlighten, cooperating and interacting at significantly valuable level.
I could help such guy to emigrate to USA and start new life in free Western World
as I did to few others.
One from them former Russian Troll but gifted student. He explained me all that Troll structure very well. For me there are two absolutely different people. I can't believe that someone could degrade, so much.
_______________________________Quote from: aleks on April 23, 2023, 09:54:26 PM
I have now. Stochasticis basically a mathematical necessity.
Thinking otherwise is living in illusionary physical models.
What
mathematical necessity you are talking about and how do you apply to it?
aether doesn't exist, - no literature, no description, no properties,
dead like some ~1500 Russian Terrorists per day, in Ukrainian soil - sometime less than that. You can't even differentiate between " physical model"
and "model in physics."
---------------------------------------------------------
It is you living in " illusionary physical models"
that don't exist.You can create " illusionary physical model " of flying pig speaking mandarin and, try to prove that in reality this pig speaks Russian.
Independent replication- repeatability makes theoretical models, physical models, models in physics or devices valid.
_______________________________Quote from: aleks on April 23, 2023, 09:54:26 PM
Here's a schematic of a loudspeaker/transducer to consider.
Note the "opposing EMF" and "controlled EMF" I've marked.
I've tried to describe that in words, but maybe a schematic will be easier to grasp
the idea where and how opposition happens.
Thank you for the picture . Please now based on that picture describe in words the nature
of your concern /question/ comment/ statement.
I have no intention of hurting you aleks - it is healthy honesty that only looks brutal.- brutal-honesty (https://www.wellandgood.com/brutal-honesty/#:~:text=Brutal%20honesty%2C%20on%20the%20other%20hand%2C%20Dr.%20Hafeez,said%20with%20the%20sole%20intention%20of%20hurting%20you.)
Thank you very much aleks.
opinion expressed is my ownWesley
Dear Alex I found some time to respond, just because
a question - is a challenge looking for statement, while statement states for an answer.
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
Wesley, you are at it again. Nobody needs your poor money.
Please concentrate at my two lines answer below for a moment:
Not many people say NO to money, if they aren't required more than provide simple answer.
You didn't respond with the answer aleks and that is why you'll not get my $3000---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in regards to your link:
Quote from: aleks on December 10, 2020, 11:00:51 AM
The frequency of the sinusoid must be carefully selected: at some frequency a "miracle" of electric energy feedback will happen.
//prior-art, published also here: https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066 (https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066) It cannot be patented.
an explanation and verification can be patented with no problem.- In free world but
in some other country of
Thieves, Corruption, Bandits Terrorists and murderers of innocent Ukrainians it may look different.
Everything about A to B Energy transfer or Energy Extraction from Schumann Waveguide can be patented too if prior art
explaining phenomena and processes differ presenting novelty not covered yet.
So you especially Russians can easily strip me and my partner in science from rights to use technology that can in few minutes shock Russia and/or
entire world economy causing eventually its collapse and in some long run - overpopulation, food shortage, and sort of man made apocalypse.
Quote from: aleks on April 15, 2023, 09:12:23 PM
answer a straight question - what happens in the situation when generating speaker is OPPOSED by a soundwave of the same frequency? It's a simple question, but you won't find an answer with all your "modern physics".
we have link: https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066 (https://vixra.org/abs/2012.0066)
The title is: "Energy from Space: A schematic
Aleksey Vaneev e-mail: aleksey.vaneev@gmail.com"
Name of our forum member is aleks =
AlekseyThe statement from that link states:
Few (e.g 2) speakers are facing each other. The distance from their centers of membranes is 108cm.
The speaker cones are 15cm off the floor.
Both of them (all of them) are
powered in phase by the same generator delivering sinusoidal wave.
Frequency of the sound wave is not specified. we assume is between 20Hz and 20kHz.
Aleks statement of the
miracle :
QuoteAbstract: this short note presents a schematic of a proposed acoustical feedback system that produces unexpected electrical energy feedback into the power grid.//3KW of power
All other questions of Alex are non related although he listed them together . I'm going to ask Aleks few Question so we can work together to better understand
his concern, prior to responding with final conclusions.
opinion expressed is my own.Wesley
I'm not looking for comments much, what I'm really looking for are experiments of similar nature - opposing loudspeakers. There's nothing to talk about ATM, because it seems I was among the first to test the thing and find out an interesting energetic effect it creates. In the recently posted image I've tried to pinpoint the source of the effect. But nobody gets the point it seems, because nobody has ventured into this. It's an electro-acoustical effect, it cannot be described just via knowledge of electrical schemes.
weslie, tell me where the energy of electrostatic field goes when Tesla coil (toroidal) capacitor discharges in vacuum as corona.
As for USA supremacy and its "rightfulness", USA is done. Energy business worldwide is likely done, too. Sticking to theory can be detrimental to understanding the state-of-the-art. I may not be good at teaching, but I'm pointing to things an educated person usually misses. Admittedly, electrical engineering is not where I'm master at, but I have great achievements in other fields.
By the way, overpopulation is a myth - developed countries struggle with aging population. Food shortages are caused by American oligarchs pretending to be rightful entrepreneurs, especially those who strive to patent everything. Nobody can patent a possible natural effect caused by the proposed opposition of speakers. You can patent an overengineered construct based on this, but not the ground truth, at least related to this effect. Energy business collapse is not due to this device, but more like from devices like Liberty Engine 2, because it already runs and is easy enough to replicate. Theory, beliefs, and american corporate/banker interests just do not allow you to believe it.
Quote from: aleks on April 29, 2023, 12:58:49 PM
I'm really looking for are experiments of similar nature - opposing loudspeakers.
//and find out an interesting energetic effect it creates.
It's an electro-acoustical effect, it cannot be described just via knowledge of electrical schemes.
I do thank you for your comment.
I'm like a computer - when you try to perform to many functions at once,
you don't have expected response due to rejection of certain commands
I will try to work with you to get to the bottom of it.
Can you tell me:1. what was the frequency of the sine wave you tested your speakers with?
2. I assume
sound card was internally connected to motherboard port ISA, VESA,( till year 95) Windows
or PCI widows XP or or in time of your experiment in year 2012 PCIe port (windows 7/8) of your computer right ?
3. This computer was powered from 220V single phase right?
Wesley
Quote from: aleks on April 29, 2023, 12:58:49 PM
weslie, tell me where the energy of electrostatic field goes when Tesla coil (toroidal) capacitor discharges in vacuum as corona.
Explanation for an average reader: Tesla coil is a type of resonant transformer.
"loosely" coupled, with the primary and secondary typically sharing only 10-20% of their respective magnetic fields and instead the coil transfers energy (via loose coupling)
from one oscillating resonant circuit (the primary) to the other (the secondary) over a number of RF cycles.
Tesla coil can transfer over 85% of the energy initially stored in the primary capacitor to the secondary circuit.
Thus the voltage gain of a disruptive Tesla coil can be significantly greater than a conventional transformer,
because of the large gap between the primary and secondary that loose coupling makes possible, the insulation between the two is far less likely to break down,
and this permits coils to run extremely high voltages without damage.
Large Tesla coil often operates at very high peak power levels, up to many megawatts (millions of watts).
Tesla coil discharges are formed as a result of displacement currents as pulses of electrical charge are rapidly transferred between the high voltage toroid
and nearby regions within the air (called space charge regions). more of it is here: https://www.ukessays.com/essays/engineering/structure-and-applications-of-tesla-coil-engineering-essay.php (https://www.ukessays.com/essays/engineering/structure-and-applications-of-tesla-coil-engineering-essay.php)A.
Now explanation from me:
Air is dielectric it stores the charge
when a dielectric is inserted in a charged capacitor
connected to a power supply), the electric field would be
decreased and so would the voltage B.
When a dielectric is inserted into a charged capacitor, the
dielectric is polarized by the field. The electric field from the
dielectric will partially cancel the electric field from the charge
on the capacitor plates. If the capacitor is connected to a
battery at the time, the battery is able to store more charge in
the capacitor, bringing the field back to its original value.
So by that: Tesla coil top electrode called "Top Capacitor"(+)
is only one plate where second plate of that capacitor is the Earth.(
-)
The voltage difference in vertical space between Earth and Ionosphere is around 100V per meter . So at the head of 2m tool guy
the voltage potential is ~200V (+)
Because Air acts as dielectric between the plates than we have always connected in parallel capacitor to these two plates of Tesla coil.
Potential difference between your foot and your head is 0V although you may think it should be around 200V because it is shorted by your body walking
on the earth and you are becoming part of the ground , like hill or mountain is .
The same story is with Tesla coil that is grounded on one side .
However when we deliver energy to secondary of Tesla Coil we create that potential difference .
and when we charge energy on some carpet it can spark from your hand when you touching ground or other uncharged person body
That what is explained above is just shrink condensed explanation
that may create even more questions.like : What Is Dielectric?
What Is Dielectric Constant of air ? ( the breakdown of air is around 3kV/mm = 30kV/cm) depends of condition of the air.)
Electric field lines-Properties
Dielectric Polarization in Polar and Nonpolar Material
Effect of Dielectric on Capacitance
Dielectric Material And Dipole Moment
https://byjus.com/physics/dielectric-constant/ (https://byjus.com/physics/dielectric-constant/) unfortunately, it looks like this link doesn't open in Europe and may not open in Russian Federation that miraculously still didn't
disintegrate yet like the former Soviet Union.
opinion expressed is my ownWesley
Quote from: aleks on April 29, 2023, 12:58:49 PM
As for USA supremacy and its "rightfulness", USA is done. Energy business worldwide is likely done, too.
I do appreciate your opinion in this comment Aleks very much
Here is my view on the subject: Technology allows to make money.
Money allows more technology including armory just to make more money.
Taxes pushes us to invest in business -that allows us to avoid taxes and that creates work for American workers who pays most of the taxes.
Americans need to keep up with education to compete with demanding skills profession.
Chinese occupies ~70% of our universities as if they didn't have their own, and we are their products market.
That is why some countries are in
deep sh*t and China (using sort of "slave" workmanship) is not helping Russia's military.
They don't want to make us the rulers of the world unhappy.
Russia is a loser as it disobeys our rules. In a "quiet" day ~650 casualties going to ~ 1,200 to 1,500
casualties a day in Ukraine
of all professions specialists,and another 1500 wounded .
That makes ~3000 of Russians per day = ~90 000 per month, of actively excluded from ability to work, get married, become fathers.
( last year it was 1/4th of that)Capitalism works and Russia since 1917 is going down rejecting it,
It is the answer to the question : why we the Americans/Canadians and EU and Australia and Japan are the sanction makers and Russia is
suffering from these sanctions.
USA, Germany and England are the "kings" of the world.
Historically, Polish are seen as the most bitter to Russians in the entire world, often irritated just by the sound of their language or music.I hope it helps.opinion expressed is my ownWesley
Quote from: stivep on April 29, 2023, 03:30:31 PM
Can you tell me:
1. what was the frequency of the sine wave you tested your speakers with?
2. I assume sound card was internally connected to motherboard port ISA, VESA,( till year 95) Windows
or PCI widows XP or or in time of your experiment in year 2012 PCIe port (windows 7/8) of your computer right ?
3. This computer was powered from 220V single phase right?
The frequency was between 20 and 20kHz, as you noted. It was a long time ago, and I didn't take notes at the time. It may have been a harmonic multiple, so many matching frequencies are possible. I've swept through the whole spectrum and at some point achieved the effect.
The sound card is a usual "on board" soundcard, not a discrete soundcard. The wiring of the soundcard and loudspeakers was very loose - I've just twisted the wires.
The computer was connected to the same municipal 220V power grid as the loudspeakers, but not via the same tee.
On Tesla coil, you are again talking about "air as dielectric". I've pointed out that discharge happens in vacuum. So your explanation is a miss if you assume that Tesla coil toroidal capacitor and Earth are opposing ends. There's no connection to Earth yet the discharge happens - where does the energy flow for the discharge to happen? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdRz3GBR_Qs&t=108s
Quote from: aleks on April 29, 2023, 10:28:53 PM
The frequency was between 20 and 20kHz, as you noted. It was a long time ago, and I didn't take notes at the time. It may have been a harmonic multiple, so many matching frequencies are possible. I've swept through the whole spectrum and at some point achieved the effect.
The sound card is a usual "on board" soundcard, not a discrete soundcard. The wiring of the soundcard and loudspeakers was very loose - I've just twisted the wires.
The computer was connected to the same municipal 220V power grid as the loudspeakers, but not via the same tee.
It would be good if you present the drawing.I understood that sound card is mounted inside of computer.
Is the sound card acting as preamplifier where its output is connected to the amplifier and than to the speakers ?
or the sound card has enough of power to drive speakers?
PS: I will respond to Tesla Coil is separate response.
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 29, 2023, 10:52:07 PM
It would be good if you present the drawing.
I understood that sound card is mounted inside of computer.
Is the sound card acting as preamplifier where its output is connected to the amplifier and than to the speakers ?
or the sound card has enough of power to drive speakers?
Computer soundcards never have preamplifiers nor amplifiers, they produce a standardized -1..1V output out of digital PCM data. The amplifiers were in the speakers, all 6 are independent of each other. I do not see a need to present a drawing. Just assume that the "sinewave oscillator" is -1..1V output of a usual "onboard" soundcard.
Quote from: aleks on April 29, 2023, 11:07:22 PM
Computer soundcards never have preamplifiers nor amplifiers, they produce a standardized -1..1V output out of digital PCM data.
Actually I disagree.
You were talking about year 2011 experiment in Russia where plenty of people still were using XP based computers.
The output from
analog sound card was acting as preamplifier to amplified speakers. There was no digital or optical output in these cards yet.
What is the model number and the manufacturer of these amplified speakers ?
______________________________________
Ok so speakers were amplified.
Are you talking about this configuration shown below or
speakers were connected to left and right channel?
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 29, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
The output from analog sound card was acting as preamplifier to amplified speakers.
Well, analog sound cards are *DA converters*, they are not classified as preamplifiers as they have no prior analog signal they are amplifying.
Quote from: stivep on April 29, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
What is the model number and the manufacturer of these amplified speakers ?
I do not remember. They were cheap plastic case single-port 10W loudspeakers. The configuration you've presented is close except I've loosely wired all 6 speakers to the same "speaker out" of a soundcard.
Note that computer speakers have stereo inputs. IIRC I've simply twisted them so instead of stereo they became mono inputs. I do not remember how I twisted them, but cutting and exposing the original wires wasn't hard, what's more important this worked and all speakers reproduced the same sinewave signal.
Also about patents and whatnot, I do not care about making money out of this, or making money out of proving unprovable things. If the scheme works and produces "energy from space" (or collapsing electrons), that will be enough to ruin the existing corrupt "world order" - and I would pay trillions for that kind of thing, if I had that kind of money myself. I myself bet on Liberty Engine 2 alike systems, because they are easily reproducible by experienced electrical engineers. It is such a blessing that "perpetual motion" machines are not patentable worldwide, which means nobody can stop anyone from producing such devices.
I think the loudspeakers were similar to the currently available SVEN 230 computer speakers (available in Russia). Here's the photo of internals, it's a "barebone" opamp-based amplifier (I suppose) with a built-in transformer. I haven't disassembled speakers I had in 2011, but considering the cost ($10 per pair), it's the only option. Maybe I'm mistaken about power rating, it could have been 10W per pair, but that's not so important I think.
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 12:15:31 AM
Note that computer speakers have stereo inputs. IIRC I've simply twisted them so instead of stereo they became mono inputs. I do not remember how I twisted them, but cutting and exposing the original wires wasn't hard, what's more important this worked and all speakers reproduced the same sinewave signal.
About stereo vs mono:
stereo creates a sense of immersion-signal strength (3 dB more doesn't sound a lot louder, but is actually twice as much power!),
our ears are very sensitive to phase relations. even very far away. This is so even if there is some panning going on and there are actually multiple PA speakers broadcasting the signal.
But it looks like you have
analog output from the sound card.( please provide sound card model number and manufacturer or just a picture of it.)
(in digital output there is
No sine wave nor even a chance to provide a sine wave)
digital to analog converter does the trick by signal sampling process.So we assume for now that:
- output from the sound card was analog .
- Right and Left channels from sound card have common wire - ground and L. R wire that you connected in parallel
- I means you created two signals that had two sinusoids :
- not in phase, or in phase.
- of the same amplitude or not .
- slightly differing frequency or not.
but both were simultaneously present, and you had no chance to know if amplification level of your sound card for both channels was the same
nor know anything about that sound apart of just listening to that sound and presuming that generated sound was as you think it was.
- frequency and amplitude scan was made by
digital to analog converter in your computer and you were able to change it, scan it.
https://youtu.be/SFBY-vhgUHw?t=21 (https://youtu.be/SFBY-vhgUHw?t=21)
Each one of the speakers had its own power plug to electrical outlet? or just one for all of the speakers ?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 07:49:12 AM
Each one of the speakers had its own power plug to electrical outlet? or just one for all of the speakers ?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm talking about 3 speaker-pairs. Each pair has 1 stereo input which I converted to mono by twisting the L/R input leads, so they were receiving the same in-phase signal, obviously at a lower voltage. Then all 3 twisted input stereo pairs were twisted together with the output channel of the soundcard (I can't remember exactly, but I've probably only used 1 output lead as to not cause any interference on the soundcard); ground leads were twisted together, of course. Very loose and lame way to do it I know, but as a result all speakers received the same in-phase signal, from the soundcard which produced a mono sinewave signal output.
Each speaker pair was connected to the electric tee independently, 3 connections overall. Note that the fuse on the tee was blown not due to connection awkwardness, but only after I hit a certain frequency on computer's sinewave generator plugin.
I'll try to do it all again soon, I've just ordered the required parts.
I do not think soundcard chip model is relevant, and I do not know which one it was. Probably, some common Realtek soundcard chip.
reedited quote of aleks:
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 08:15:04 AM
I'm talking about 3 speaker-pairs.
//having 1 stereo input //receiving the same in-phase signal, //obviously at a lower voltage.
all 3 twisted input stereo pairs were twisted together with the output channel of the soundcard
only used 1 output lead (was possibly used)
ground leads were twisted together,all speakers received the same in-phase signal, from the soundcard which produced a mono sinewave signal output.Each speaker pair was connected to the electric tee independently, 3 connections overall.
Probably, some common Realtek soundcard chip.
Thank you.
So I understand that e.g right channel from the sound card was not connected at all .
and only left was used ?
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 08:15:04 AM
Note that the fuse on the tee was blown not due to connection awkwardness, but only after I hit a certain frequency on computer's sinewave generator plugin.
Question about the tee:
The tee you are talking about- was it the electrical extender allowing from single wall electrical outlet to have 3 individual outlets like a T splitter connected into the 220V outlet that had its own 15A fuse?
Was your computer than connected to separate outlet but your apartment or house was connected to only one single 220V phase?
Do you have in your apartment or house 3 phase feed 3x220V?
Do you have in your apartment or house 2 phase feed means you can have 220V or 380V ( in between the phases?)
If you have anywhere in your apartment or house 380V is it possible that one of the outlets on the wall was connected to different phase?
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 08:48:26 AM
So I understand that e.g right channel from the sound card was not connected at all .
and only left was used ?
Yes, most probably. That's what common sense tells me at the moment. There was no need to twist output leads together as only a single source signal was needed. That was the whole idea in fact - hexagonal geometry and a single signal source. I now think that 6 speakers in a hexagon were a bit overengineered, but I guess otherwise I would not get big enough energy surge to notice anything. Now I do not think distances (108cm) or the number of speaker pairs are important overall, but to myself it was the only way as I'm not an EE.
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 08:48:26 AM
Question about the tee:
The tee you are talking about- was it the electrical extender allowing from one wall electrical outlet to have 3 individual outlets like T splitter connected into the 220V outlet that had its own 15A fuse?
Wesley
Yes, it was a simple electrical extender with 15A thermal fuse, the simplest one that costs about 5$ at the moment.
The apartment has 360V input, but as I was doing the experiment in the same room I think both the computer and the speakers were connected to the same 220V phase, just different outlets.
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 09:03:54 AM
Yes, it was a simple electrical extender with 15A thermal fuse, the simplest one that costs about 5$ at the moment.
The apartment has 360V input, but as I was doing the experiment in the same room I think both the computer and the speakers were connected to the same 220V phase, just different outlets.
Thank you.
The sound:
Sound is the rapid cycling between compression and rarefaction of air.
The way that sounds move through the air can be thought of as analogous to the way vibrations move along a slinky.
Here is a link to a video in YouTube that provides a nice illustration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubRlaCCQfDk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubRlaCCQfDk) The metal parts of the slinky don't move from one end to the other.
What does move along the slinky as it vibrates, is the regions where the spring is compressed or stretched out.
The same thing happens when air is compressed for an instant.
The air molecules themselves do not move very far, but wave of high density air moves at the speed of sound, roughly 770 miles per hour.
Two mono speakers
feed in phase have pressure longitudinal wave
out of phase generated.
https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576868/#msg576868 (https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg576868/#msg576868)
1.
Exactly in the middle of the distance between the speakers the two pressure waves collides
squeezing air - when the both membranes from the 2 speakers are at
OUT position exactly in the same time.
If we place on the
geometrically perfect circle equally spread 6 speakers than all of the 6 pressure waves from the 6 speakers collides
squeezing air - when all membranes of the speakers are at
OUT position exactly in the same time.2. Each pair of speakers was powered from the same outlet.
Was it possible that the speakers from the same pair were placed exactly at opposite sides facing each other?
Assuming that each pair of the speakers is facing each other and we draw the straight line exactly from the centers of each speaker in between facing each other speakers -
-was it possible that the speakers from the same pair were placed in the circle and their membranes were facing straight at 90 degrees perpendicular to the
straight line between them?
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 09:34:36 AM
1.
Exactly in the middle of the distance between the speakers the two pressure waves collides
squeezing air - when the both membranes from the 2 speakers are at OUT position exactly in the same time.
If we place on the geometrically perfect circle equally spread 6 speakers than all of the 6 pressure waves from the 6 speakers collides
squeezing air - when all membranes of the speakers are at OUT position exactly in the same time.
Sorry, but you are missing the frequency component from your reasoning. They can be in-phase or out-of-phase at a given point in space *depending* on the frequency of the soundwave. There's no much sense to consider the central point as soundwaves mostly do not interact with each other. It's important what the phase is at the point where the diaphragm is located.
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 09:34:36 AM
Was it possible that the speakers from the same pair were placed exactly at opposite sides facing each other?
This is an interesting question, but I do not remember exactly. This may or not be important relative to the amplifying cascade. Anyway, for any experimenter there are only two options available, not too much work to find out. As I've replied earlier, I'll retest, and hopefully I'll get a blown fuse again-I've ordered several for replacement.
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 09:40:56 AM
Sorry, but you are missing the frequency component from your reasoning. They can be in-phase or out-of-phase at a given point in space *depending* on the frequency of the soundwave.
No I'm not.
It may be a simple translation problem. I can write in Russian perfectly well.
Speed of electrical signal in the wire is: 10
8 m/s
speed of the sound in air is 331 m / s
So if the electrical signal is delivered to our 6 speakers than all of them are in phase at any time and
frequency is not important By that all of the membranes of the speakers are at exactly the same position at the very same time or any time even if your power is OFF. .
But all of the mechanical pressure waves created by the membranes of the speakers are out of phase when compared to the phase of the electric signals driving them.
It also means that each pair of the two opposing speakers conflicts with each other squeezing air exactly in the center of the distance between these two.There is also some mechanical lag -
delayed motion in a mechanism caused by inability to fallow the current change by the moving membrane coil.
if the speakers are exactly the same( from the same batch) we may expect them having similar mechanical properties, But with Chinese it is not the rule.
My lab test speakers like everything in Boston Dynamic -are made by Boston Acoustics (American made.) Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 10:00:49 AM
Speed of electrical signal in the wire is: 10 8 m/s
speed of the sound in air is 331 m / s
So if the electrical signal is delivered to our 6 speakers than all of them are in phase at any time and frequency is not important
Well, it's not important how electrical signal is converted to pressure, it may be out-of-phase depending on how speakers were wired. What's important is which phase of the *opposing* soundwave you get on the diaphragms.
I much prefer Genelecs myself. But this is a different kind of application, it does not require full-frequency-range precision. One needs to reproduce just a single sinewave, and for that kind of application any junk loudspeakers can be used.
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 10:00:49 AM
It also means that the two opposing speakers from each pair conflicts with each other squeezing air exactly
in the center of the distance between these two.
Some explanation about sound:https://youtu.be/F7D_pnaexG0?t=39 (https://youtu.be/F7D_pnaexG0?t=39)
Here is explanation of "0" ("ZERO") sound heard:
https://www.wyzant.com/resources/answers/184521/physics_of_sound_question (https://www.wyzant.com/resources/answers/184521/physics_of_sound_question)
Physics of Sound question QuoteTwo identical loudspeakers emitting the same pure tones (ƒ = 343 Hz)
are facing each other at a distance of 10.0 m. If the speed of sound is 343 m/s, the wavelength λ = 1m.
An observer positioned in the middle between the two speakers hears constructive interference. It can be changed to destructive interference
by moving ______ m towards one of the speakers.
Answer:QuoteBy moving 1/4 or 0.25 meter towards one of the speakers, the observer will experience destructive interference= ZERO sound
The only difference between noise cancelling headphones is that we don't need microphones as we know exactly what we delivered to the speakers.( headsets)
Noise cancellation is made possible by an effect known as phase cancellation. In order to cancel out a sound wave, another sound wave is created in its equal but opposite form.
That is, each peak and valley, or compression and rarefaction, of an incoming audio wavelength is matched with an inverted version of itself at the same amplitude.
During a process known as destructive interference, the unwanted, ambient input then combines with an outbound signal in the shape of its inverse to form a new wave.
So when a listener is enjoying music or a podcast through an active noise-canceling headset, they are hearing their audio content of choice play
over a one-of-a-kind anti-sound wave, curated to their unique surroundings at any given time.
This text is taken from: https://builtin.com/hardware/how-does-noise-canceling-work (https://builtin.com/hardware/how-does-noise-canceling-work)
Wesley
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 10:28:36 AM
it may be out-of-phase depending on how speakers were wired.
We are assuming that speakers are connected exactly the same. red to red ,black to black. As you didn't change polarity in your original experiment right?
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 10:28:36 AM
Well, it's not important how electrical signal is converted to pressure,
We are collecting information now and not yet formulating any conclusions
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 11:01:43 AM
We are assuming that speakers are connected exactly the same. red to red ,black to black. As you didn't change polarity in your original experiment right?We are collecting information now and not yet formulating any conclusions
Well, I do not know how speakers were actually wired, to begin with, as this requires reverse-engineering, so I would not make any guesses as to which phase the pressure wave has. What's important is they were from the same manufacturer, so most probably they were wired equally.
You've touched the problem of noise-cancellation. And it is an observer-dependent effect. However, the energy from *both* waves is present at the point of observance, at the same time. But as the sum of pressure fields of stochastically-moving air molecules in both directions is zero this is *perceived* as absense of pressure. This is important, and it is also important to understand why I'm insisting that aether is a stochastic medium - it has the same property except scalar pressure field is replaced with complex electromagnetic field.
Dear Alex my time is very well paid in American dollars, and I'm dedicating it to you for free.
We are not going yet to the nonsense that makes sense for you.We may, but not now.
So far we have probable configuration of :
6 speakers in 3 pairs where 3 power cords were connected to the same electrical outlet 220V 15A fuse protected
Each pair had its own amplifier .
If we draw the circle we would spread them equally on it but each pair of speakers is facing each other in the straight line
drown through the center of the circle.
Computer with the sound card was connected to separate outlet presumably from the same electrical phase.
_________________________________________________
Impedance match and load specification:In electronics, impedance matching is the practice of designing or adjusting the input impedance or output impedance of an electrical device for a desired value.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching)
load by itself is specified in its general form as:
the quantity that can be carried at one time and also measured quantity of a commodity fixed for each type of carrier.
So in the electrical outlet we have 220V potential and ZERO current.
The load will be measured by current drown from the outlet and expressed by European formula P=U x I
where P is power in W
U is 220V
and I (current in Amps) is unknown yet.
So Load needs enough power drown from the electrical outlet .
That has nothing to do with gain or amplification or number of speakers or feedback
Load is a Load. But if we don't have
purely resistive Load we may expect that Load doesn't have fix value.
We know that the bigger the load the higher is the current drown from the electrical outlet 220V
So we may project that outlet as a big Russian guy having enough of power to carry on the load needs-
-like if it was not some resistive load but a pretty Ukrainian teenager girl.
She wants this she wants that, and the guy happy or not must deliver.
Impedance vs changing value of the Load:
That pretty Ukrainian girl requires a maintenance resisting in many ways if not happy.
In electronics the Load can be purely resistive at 10% but in many ways if not happy
manifesting additional capacitive or inductive reactivity at 90%
Your own picture here: Re: Acoustical feedback energy system (https://overunity.com/18732/acoustical-feedback-energy-system/msg577142/#msg577142) shows the transformer
from power supply mounted in one of the every two speakers.
This transformer has coils- means inductive reactance and capacitive reactance of the winding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrator%E2%80%93capacitor_model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrator%E2%80%93capacitor_model)
and you have 3 of these transformers in your 3 pairs ( total 6 speakers .)
At resonance, both capacitive (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=ba0599206634a5d9JmltdHM9MTY4MjgxMjgwMCZpZ3VpZD0zMmMxMzg2My03ZjJkLTY5YzQtMjMzOC0yYjYxN2VkZDY4YmMmaW5zaWQ9NTQxNw&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=32c13863-7f2d-69c4-2338-2b617edd68bc&u=a1L3NlYXJjaD9xPUNhcGFjaXRvciZmaWx0ZXJzPXNpZCUzYTMwZjAyZjYyLTRjMjQtOTI1Ni0yYWViLTFkYzE2YzZlOWM1MyZmb3JtPUVOVExOSw&ntb=1) and inductive reactance will be
equal to each other.
The inductor (https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=e8d8c015698b1ee8JmltdHM9MTY4MjgxMjgwMCZpZ3VpZD0zMmMxMzg2My03ZjJkLTY5YzQtMjMzOC0yYjYxN2VkZDY4YmMmaW5zaWQ9NTQxOQ&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=32c13863-7f2d-69c4-2338-2b617edd68bc&u=a1L3NlYXJjaD9xPUluZHVjdG9yJmZpbHRlcnM9c2lkJTNhZjY0ZmY2MTYtNjFmZi05ZDFmLWNkZTEtN2M4NWQ1ZTUxMzNkJmZvcm09RU5UTE5L&ntb=1) and capacitor will also be conducting more current at the resonant frequency.
Current flowing across both components is 180° out of phase, which results in a mutually
canceling current.exploring-the-resonant-frequency-of-an-rlc-circuit
(https://resources.pcb.cadence.com/blog/2021-exploring-the-resonant-frequency-of-an-rlc-circuit#:~:text=At%20resonance%2C%20both%20capacitive%20and%20inductive%20reactance%20will,phase%2C%20which%20results%20in%20a%20mutually%20canceling%20current.)So we have something that looks like short circuit blowing the fuse .
In other words you didn't have any gain, any magic energy produced, you just sort of shorted the two terminals of that 220V outlet.
And by that you are the double loser. You can't use your speakers at this particular frequency and you don't have power in the outlet.
what-is-a-srf-this-is-used-in-ac-power-distribution-system-with-isolation- (https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/96411/what-is-a-srf-this-is-used-in-ac-power-distribution-system-with-isolation-tran#:~:text=The%20frequency%20at%20which%20the%20inductive%20impedance%20equals,be%20measured%20using%20the%20ANGL%20test%29%20is%20zero.)
QuoteThe SRF is the frequency where the capacitive and inductive elements in the system are of equal magnitude and opposite sign.
This leads either to very low impedances
The effect is that the system does not work as intended. Keeping SRF well away from the operating frequency is a key design requirement.
To better understand what I;m talking about take look at the DC and AC Relay. or DC and AC electric door lock - the strike
A
DC relay coil has resistance that limits the dc current.
An
AC relay coil relies on its impedance for governing the current.
So it has few winds ~10% and ~90% is impedance
If you than decide to connect the AC relay to DC voltage you will damage it as we speak.
Sometime it will blow in fumes.
because
for DC that relay or that electric lock doesn't have any
impedance - it
Doesn't exist.
Additional factor to know:
SWR of impedance match.
standing wave ratio (
SWR) is a measure of impedance matching (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching) of loads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_load) to the characteristic impedance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristic_impedance) of a transmission line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line) or waveguide
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waveguide)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_wave_ratio)
If we don't want to explain the phenomena with use of Counter-electromotive force (counter EMF, CEMF, back EMF), - the electromotive force (EMF) manifesting
as a voltage that opposes the change in current which induced it. CEMF is the EMF caused by electromagnetic induction.
we may use -
The short explanation:
If There is no impedance patch to the load than part of that energy is reflected back and impacts the source of energy like Transmitter of RF or the outlet.
_____________________________________________________________
So you were not producing any magic energy but in resonance your power transformer primary winding had more current than your outlet fuse was able to withhold.
cheap Chinese design - that's all.
Note:
The
electronic load in tests : tests energy sources or energy conversion blocks with static or dynamic loading.
Wesley
Yeah, I expected you would say "short-circuit", nothing new to see here. Except loudspeakers do not short-circuit when no signal is feeded into them, don't you think? From which heights the British unicorns bring you zero resistance in case of an opposing soundwave? And which is not a source of DC current?
weslie, please answer a question: will such loudspeaker (as I've used) short-circuit if the movement of the diaphragm be hardly constrained, or the voice-coil glued to the magnet?
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 01:18:02 PM
Yeah, I expected you would say "short-circuit", nothing new to see here. Except loudspeakers do not short-circuit when no signal is feeded into them, don't you think? From which heights the British unicorns bring you zero resistance in case of an opposing soundwave? And which is not a source of DC current?
It is not the resistance but impedance.
Impedance is made from three factors:
- pure resistance.
-capacitive reactance between winds of the transformer
- inductive reactance of the winding of the transformer
https://eepower.com/technical-articles/transformer-operating-principles/# (https://eepower.com/technical-articles/transformer-operating-principles/#)
Impedance is a mixture of resistance and reactance,
Reactance like a resistance is a ratio of voltage to current
If we eliminate reactance in resonance we are left with pure resistance .
We can do simple test:
Simple way to eliminate reactance is to use DC.
DC doesn't recognize any reactance.
Connect any of your Transformers primary winding to 220V DC .
You'll have exactly the same effect .
Your transformer will blow or quickly get hot and than blow.
You need to get familiar with, SRF = Self Resonant Frequency
QuoteThe frequency at which the inductive impedance equals the capacitive impedance (XL = XC) is known
as the self-resonant frequency (SRF) of the component.
At this point, the phase angle of the impedance (which can be measured using the ANGL test) is zero.
The effect is that the system does not work as intended. Keeping
SRF well away from the operating frequency is a key design requirement.
it means:
Your transformer selfresonance frequency must be never met.
or the connection of your three primary windings of the three transformers powering three pairs of speakers must never
manifest
SRF together..
Here is SRF calculator: self-resonance-frequency-calculator Resonance (https://www.calculatoratoz.com/en/self-resonance-frequency-calculator/Calc-1227#:~:text=Self%20Resonance%20Frequency%20calculator%20uses%20Self%20Resonance%20Frequency,inductance%20and%20the%20capacitance%20of%20the%20inductor%20occurs.)Wesley
To oppose any of yours
magic energy production idea:
There is no energy in given circuit without the source of it.
Circuit can't produce any energy as energy can't be produced.
We have fixed amount of energy in the universe.- First law of thermodynamics
QuoteIn other words, there has always been, and always will be, exactly the same amount of energy in the universe.
The first law thermodynamics (https://openstax.org/books/biology-2e/pages/6-3-the-laws-of-thermodynamics#:~:text=The%20first%20law%20of%20thermodynamics%20deals%20with%20the,the%20same%20amount%20of%20energy%20in%20the%20universe.)
So any device , any circuit can only use energy that already exist to convert it to the form of energy
comfortable to us.
Example: Water mills harness kinetic energy from moving bodies of water (usually rivers or streams) in order to drive machinery and generate electricity.
Russian Oil sales as a source of energy till we don't find way to stop China and India from buying it. The rest of the world doesn't buy it any longer.
Most likely Russia will collapse like Soviet Union soon making room to many new countries .
I wish entire Russian Nation no longer be seen as terrorists, thieves, killers, rapists and bandits in Ukraine.
I wish you personally to wake up in one morning thinking:
Can I just make phone call, order ticket to
New York to see Wesley and the next day
go to Australia to see some
kangaroo just because like Wesley I don't need visa into entire world.
There is plenty of value in every nation and in Russians too.
Some Russians tried to wipe me few times. I wish myself to meet you without worry that you
are some Pietrov and Bashirov.
https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-poisoning-suspects-alexander-petrov-and-ruslan-boshirov-were-held-in-netherlands-11504028 (https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-poisoning-suspects-alexander-petrov-and-ruslan-boshirov-were-held-in-netherlands-11504028)
So even if you disagree with me, you still don't make any energy.
I wish you all the best.
Wesley
Quote from: stivep on April 30, 2023, 02:24:54 PM
To oppose any of yours magic energy production idea:
There is no energy in given circuit without the source of it.
N.B. Professor Harold Puthoff and the postulated zero point energy etc.
Quote from: aleks on April 30, 2023, 01:55:35 PM
weslie, please answer a question: will such loudspeaker (as I've used) short-circuit if the movement of the diaphragm be hardly constrained, or the voice-coil glued to the magnet?
sound has nothing to do with it. It is the "frequency in the wire" - not sound pressure wave that counts.
Frequency delivered from the sound card should independently be delivered to the amplifier circuit build in the speaker without any chances for any feedback leakage.
Power supply: the transformer 220V to 12V AC should be connected to Graetz bridge rectifier using 4 diodes and than to pi filter made from minimum 2 capacitors (in old times electrolytic.)
But Chinese uses some tricks to make it cheaper.
So what happened:
At the particular frequency of the sound the load presented to the transformer or to the all three transformers powering 3 sets of amplifiers with 6 speakers from the same outlet
in its parameters presented value making the transformer going to SRF = Self Resonant Frequency
In the picture #1let's calculate some values using a SRF calculator:
if the inductive reactance was: 696 mH and capacitive reactance was 9.7uF than frequency of SRF= 61.1Hz
and in USA frequency of power grid is 60Hz.
calculatoratoz.com/en/self-resonance-frequency-calculator/ (https://www.calculatoratoz.com/en/self-resonance-frequency-calculator/Calc-1227#:~:text=Self%20Resonance%20Frequency%20calculator%20uses%20Self%20Resonance%20Frequency,inductance%20and%20the%20capacitance%20of%20the%20inductor%20occurs.)
Another example using equation:
A transformer primary is a coil, and the opposition induced in that coil can be calculated.
If the winding in the coil is 500′ of AWG #22 copper wire, the wire has a resistance of approximately
8 Ω. If the coil has an inductance of
0.5 H=500mH, the inductive reactance and total impedance are calculated as follows:
look at
picture #2For you to know and understand
How impedance affects wire that has 8 Ohm of pure resistance of copper : If the wire is not wound into a coil, the resistance of the wire alone is 8 Ω.
Because a coil has a higher impedance than a wire, the total impedance when the wire is wound into a coil is 188.7 Ω at 60 Hz. The current capacity in the wire alone is about 23.6 times higher than the current capacity through the coil because of
the increased impedance from the inductive reactance of the coil.
The comparison of the coil and the straight conductor shows how a transformer primary can be connected to a source and act to limit the current.
The four factors that determine or control the inductance of a coil are :
the cross-section of the core,
the number of turns,
the type of the core,
and the length of the coil.
So Aleks- try to connect 8 Ohm wire into 220V DC and it will blow or your 15A fuse will blow.
And now:try to make primary winding of the transformer from the same 8 Ohm wire that becomes 188 Ohm in form of a coil.
If that winding in this transformer at that frequency is not in the frequency of self resonance you can use this transformer.
However if you take the 3 of transformers under very specific load( at the particular frequency of the sound)
all of them have their primary winding connected in parallel - they may fall into self resonance as impedance is dynamically dependent .
-it means is frequency sensitive
one more factor that may be important :
In civilized Western World of Europe frequency of the grid is 50Hz.
if we have dynamically changing load on the transformer and in Russia this frequency drifts we may also get effect of selfresonance.
of the transformer.
-in picture #1 you see SRF=61.1Hz. So that is 1.1Hz more than in USA(60Hz) That little drift may cause problem here.
Russia during soviet union had constant every day frequency drift in all countries under soviet terror.
Russia of today is likely third world country with GDP likely lower than in Papula New Guinea
and Uganda or some other African countries.
Everything there is worse than it was during Soviet time and Putin is hunted by international court in Hague
like Muammar Muhammad Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi or Saddam Husein .
opinion expressed is my own.Wesley
weslie, sorry, I've lost you. You didn't answer the relevant question, the question which matters.
(Resistivity of metals is 10^-8 Ohm-meters, that's why they short-circuit easily, they have zero resistance basically, resistance of a short copper wire is in milliOhms.)
And your SRF reasoning implies that the opposing soundwave "magically" changes SRF of fixed transformer windings, that were, to begin with, predesigned for driving an audio-frequency-range voice-coil, with its mechanical inertia and associated back EMF. Sounds great in theory, but not so much in practice.
The formula for SRF of a transformer is:
f_res = 1 / (2 * pi * sqrt(L_in * L_out * C))
where L_in is inductance of 220V winding, L_out is inductance of output winding (12V I suppose), C is transformer's capacitance.
Pre-designed SRF cannot be anywhere close to 50 or 60 Hz I suppose as that would cause a resistive-load short-circuit of the mains. Considering inductance of both windings is most probably in the range 1-10H, SRF should be below 50 Hz, for a 12VA transformer. At the same time the sinewave frequency in use was above 200Hz - it was loud and audible (cheap loudspeakers do not reproduce nor resonate to anything below 100 Hz well - too small diaphragm). Something does not add up in your "SRF short-circuit" theory.
Quote from: Paul-R on April 30, 2023, 07:11:32 PM
N.B. Professor Harold Puthoff and the postulated zero point energy etc.
Unfortunately, accepted science does not attribute any utility to quantum fluctuations of vacuum other than utility of mangling quantum-theoretic constructs.